A Voice of the Free Zone (Electra) : Volume 1b

Volume 1b

E-METER TECHNICIANS

EXM - 12
ca. 1992

In the first place no one in their right mind would ever buy an E-meter from a non Scientologist, let alone someone who held the subject in contempt.

Such a person would have no understanding of the function of the E-meter, no respect for its purposes and thus no pride for his craftsmanship, let alone an ability to quality check his own work.

Further his intentions would be opposed to having a well working E-meter in the environment because someone might come along and ask him to pick up the cans.

Lastly he would not be able to check out the functioning of his E-meters because he would be unwilling or unable to Solo with the meters that crossed his hands to give them their final OK to Audit check.

By definition, if he could use them on himself to see if they worked properly by producing reads and proper TA action, he would be a Scientologist by choice.

I USE every E-meter that comes my way, I let my Eternity depend upon it. If I don't like it, I burn it.

Mock the Church. Please do not mock Scientology.

Electra

IS SCIENTOLOGY THE ONLY WAY?

EXM - 13 ca. 1992

Please be careful not to confuse Scientology and the Church of Scientology or even 'Scientologists'. The mentality that you find in the followers or even founders of any particular religion or path to enlightenment is not necessarily representative of the mentality espoused by that same path.

The point is, the PATH exists independent of the pushers of the path.

The question of what will the Church do with all those for whom Scientology does not work is one of the best questions you can ask if you wish to avoid the world slave state currently advocated by the Church management.

Their idea of a Clear World is a Clear flow of money into their coffers at everyone else's expense.

But if we ignore the Church for a moment, we are still left with the problem of what happens if Scientology 'does not work'?

Well you are talking to someone for whom this was true, until I made it work, and what I found was not that Scientology was wrong but that all the people who were pushing it were way WAY below being able to apply it in any useful way.

The dead can not help the dead.

I was dead, and so were they. Most of them still are.

I am now quite alive and can attest to the workability of this spiritual technology that I have come to call Scientology.

A couple of points.

The first is that the tech I have is similar to but not identical to stuff written in the works of Hubbard. It evolved as I made case gain. I cognited much of my own tech.

This brings up the point that Scientology is not the existing tech as laid out by L. Ron Hubbard which is only a poorly organized subset of the over all subject.

The implication is that as new ways and means of helping people are found or cognited, they will be added to the bin of knowledge called Scientology. It won't be the copyrighted pile of cow pie that LRH tried to push off on all of us, but it will enhance that pile and make it better.

When Lavoisier died, did all of Chemistry cease to grow? No of course not, new things are discovered everyday in the field of Chemistry and they are all added to the bin called Chemistry.

Exactly so with Scientology.

Lastly before you go asking what about all those other ways to help people, you ought to consider that Scientology is itself a conglomeration of all the wisdom about helping people that has ever been known to man. Thus Scientology IS the best of all those other ways, it is not something different.

It is neither new nor original, although some of it surely is, just as what I have come to know is original with me. Others may have discovered it before me, but I did not know about it until I found it again. That's the only originality anyone could claim.

Now the Church would claim that any process discovered in session by someone other than LRH should not be used, and should not be added to the bin called Scientology.

I on the other hand am very happy to add what I have discovered to 'Scientology', because that is the public domain name of this field of the mind, even though it is also presently the copyrighted property of the RTC. That's because the Copyright Courts are ignorant of the nature of this universe and are unable to remember their own whole track. Otherwise they would have laughed the whole proposition out of court.

David Mayo is in the center of this whole legal swirl by the way, and it is coming to a head very soon, so if you would like to help him out you might consider how to best push Scientology with out pushing the Church.

And now we come to the last point. If you have a car and it is not working and you take it to a mechanic and he pulls out the manual and fixes a valve or something and it starts working right, you would think this was fine would you not?

If someone came along and said, well your car got better because the mechanic talked to it right, or held its steering column, or the car had faith in the mechanic you would think this person had little grip on reality.

The fact is, if a car is not working right, there is always something specific wrong with it. It follows that only fixing that specific thing will fix the car. There is no mumbo jumbo, there is only accurate technical expertise.

It is the same with the Human Spirit and Mind, although people do not recognize this to be the case. There are so many ways to make the human mind run better without fixing it, that people have long ago given up on the idea of fixing it for real. In fact they find it a bit insulting, because they don't want to admit its broke. It's their mind after all.

Be that as it may, the anatomy of the human mind, especially of what's WRONG WITH IT, is the same from person to person. It's a rather complex affair, and people can be zonked into what's wrong with it in many different ways, but the sum total knowledge of how to clean up what's wrong with a person could and should be classified under some subject heading. The Psychiatric Zombie Lords would have you call it psychology. But their vision is limited, they have yet to admit to the existence of a free independent being who can leave the body and feel sick about dying or believe it is mortal when it isn't.

Thus what Ron Hubbard has done is take up where everyone else was floundering around and gave it a fresh start and a new name, a name by the way that goes back to the beginning of the universe. It's NOT LRH'S NAME and it don't have his copyright on it. It has OUR copyright on it. Get it?

It's right there for all to see.

                              SCIENTOLOGY
 
            Copyright (C) Beginning of Time, by the HIGH US.
                      All Rights Reserved Forever.

So it is true that present day available Scientology Technicians are not able to help everyone, and it is true that many of them in their barbaric rightness, would burn those they could not help as inferior or suppressive or squirrels or anything rather than admit they don't know what the hell they are doing.

But once they do find out how to do it, the new knowledge would just be classified under what ever name you prefer, be it psychology, Scientology or Transactional Analysis.

The processes in Scientology are geared to quickly raise a being's awareness up to higher levels of consciousness, those involved with communication, problems, withholds, upsets and fixed conditions. Once he is there he finds out that his entire spiritual journey has been controlled and hindered by a heretofore only vaguely glimpsed mechanical entity called the Reactive Mind, or R6 Bank for short. (R6 stands for Routine 6, the first auditing process used to run it out. It is now run out on the Clearing Course.)

People have gotten very high in past religions, Buddha did among others. But once up there they just wandered around the R6 Bank getting very overwhelmed. Possibly some figured out how to erase it, but others eventually came crashing back down. I did.

Although many people have tried to discover a way to handle the R6 Bank on others, LRH is the first to have found a way that works for many many people. NOT EVERYONE YET. It's mainly a matter of getting up to that level in the first place.

It's also a matter of time and money. Maybe the tech would work with everyone, if they had 5000 years and the accumulated income to pay for it. But that's not desirable. Any workable tech should be WORKABLY expensive and take a workably long amount of time to complete. That means the being should be able to walk the Bridge and not be hindered because the toll is too high, or die of old age before he gets across.

That's not workable, don't you see?

Once they are up there, to the level of the R6 Bank, it is doubtful that anyone could fail to successfully use extant Scientology Technology to complete the process for going Clear. However getting up to that stage is a bitch, and herein lies most of the failures of present day Scientology Tech.

The answer for such people is to learn as much as they can about all fields in psychotherapy, including Transactional Analysis, Primal Scream and Scientology among others. Also get an E-meter.

Don't fail to get an E-meter.

Then work towards an improvement in the field of Scientology like everyone else is doing.

I think you will find that Scientology Technology is miles ahead of everything else on the planet. However you will also find that all of the principles found in TA and Primal Scream and others are also found in Scientology although couched in different terms, and different policies, some a lot saner than those found in Scientology.

This does not make these other technologies wrong, only possibly incomplete, and a subset of sorts of what you will find in Scientology.

Scientology is itself not complete, all natter from the Church to the contrary, and we would love to have on board anyone with a true desire to solve the problem of the human condition and widen the path towards Godhood for all humans who wish to walk it.

If you wish to copyright any technology that you discover on your own under the name of Wombatism, that is fine as long as it works, and as long as it is available in the Free Zone at Free Market prices.

Electra

SOLD TO THE DEVIL

EXM-14 ca. 1992

>On a related subject, there has been much reference, by the Independent
>Scientologists and others, to the Churches' hidden agenda of "one
>world, one way."  I have been in the Church for over twenty years and
>have never seen or heard any references to this as being a Church
>goal.

This is preposterous. The Church from the beginning has a bulletin called KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING which explicitly states that all Scientologists should do everything in their power to stamp out incorrect technology and incorrect application of technology.

That of course refers to anything that is not Scientology Standard Technology.

You will NEVER hear the praises of EST, or Transactional Analysis, or Primal Scream in Scientology, the last two being critical to my still being alive.

It is inconceivable that anyone in the Church would ever admit that any work ever done by anyone outside the Church was of any use and should not be DISCOURAGED. In fact one of the strongest principles there is in Scientology is NOT TO MIX PRACTICES. The implication is that any practice at all that is not strict Standard Scientology is squirrel and SUPPRESSIVE, born of evil intentions.

Further the thought that any independent group might be allowed to actually test Scientology Technology in their own laboratories or experiment with it to see if it can be improved is an anathema to them and is preempted by the iron fisted hold the RTC has on the copyrights of Scientology which includes forbidding anyone to use it out side of the Church. Just as the medical profession and the psychiatric profession refuse to allow anyone to practice medicine (chronic drug addiction) or psychiatry (chronic drug addiction) with out a license, the Church too refuses and has the legal right to prohibit anyone from practicing Scientology Technology out side of the Church.

The Church as spent MILLIONS to legally harass and stop others from practicing Scientology out side of the Church, let alone start their own groups and offshoots.

Now its fine to agree with all this, and maybe even it is true that it should be this way, but then to come out and state that this is not a 'ONE WAY' religion is complete balderdash and discredits the hell out of you as an OT.

I was forbidden under threat of expulsion to continue with any practice, mental or otherwise, that I might have still wanted to practice from my earlier religions.

In fact I was forbidden to even practice SCIENTOLOGY in the absence of strict control from my Case Supervisor and Auditor both of whom were spiritual Neanderthals who were more interested in their stats than they were in actually making me better. STATS and MONEY were important to the org, not customer satisfaction.

They can all go to hell and stay there forever until I personally come and dig them out of their deceits.

Electra

TO THE END OF TIME

EXM - 15 ca. 1992

My Master once told me,

"When you find a goal that you are willing to kill for to the end of time, you will have found your Basic Purpose.'

I would now change this.

When you find a goal that you are willing to kill and be tortured for to the end of time, you will have found your Basic Purpose as a full OT.

For him this was defending freedom of religion, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.

For me it is freedom to audit. Myself and others.

If I stop posting, you will know that my voice has been silenced.

There was an old sect that used to believe that the purpose of life was Kamikaze. If I should feel that my life is in danger I may take them up on this proposition.

If I must die, it would seem smart to take as many of the enemy with me as I can.

I have no intention of starting a war, it is the Church who invades my privacy and freedom with force, hoodlums and goon squads.

I merely wish to audit and to speak what I have found.

And perhaps crack a joke or two at the Church's expense every once in a while.

And that is a statement of my intentions.

Electra

E-METERS AGAIN

EXM - 16 ca. 1992

 >...unknown person forging postings as Electra...

A forgery implies that I am passing myself off as someone I am not. I am merely posting anonymously under a pen name. If you want people, even of your own kind, to respect your criticisms, then you should not take pot shots that put your own position into disgrace.

You yourself have said that the Church is dangerous, so I would think that you would respect the anonymity of someone who has a bigger bone to chew with them than they do with you.

 >>     Such a person would have no
 >>understanding of the function of the
 >>E-meter, no respect for its purposes and thus no pride for his
 >>craftsmanship, let alone an ability to quality check his own work.

 >However, you have no right to suggest that I and anyone like me lack
 >pride in my work.

A thousand apologies, I never meant to imply that you have no pride in your own work, only that you would not have the pride in the building of an E-meter that a professional user would have.

A man who never depends upon a rifle for his living has little inkling as to the pride or expertise necessary to manufacture such a rifle.

People's lives are at stake here, if your life is not at stake in the building of your product, IN GENERAL your product will be shoddy compared to one produced by someone who really cared.

 >I would make damn sure that
 >it was at least as high in
 >quality as the "official" E-meters produced by Scientology.

It is unlikely that someone who has never played a violin in his entire life and knows nothing of violin music could claim to make violins as well as a true master. All the good violins of the world were made by people who could play them and appreciated the reason for playing them.

I have been using E-meters for 20 years both Solo and otherwise, and they have saved my life more times than I care to admit. I owe one to the Old Geezer, you know what I mean? Volney Mathison too.

It takes LOVE of a product and a subject to produce well in that subject.

Am I really so off the mark here?

 >>     Lastly he would not be able to check out the functioning of his
 >>E-meters because he would be unwilling or unable to
 >>Solo with the meters
 >>that crossed his hands to give them their final OK to Audit check.

 >I am sure any competent electrical

 >engineer could duplicate an E-meter,
 >to the extent that if it were under identical housing,
 >nobody could tell the difference.

I am not saying this is impossible, I am saying that it is unlikely to occur over a long production run, especially with someone who held the subject in contempt at the helm.

 >I suspect the real problem would be
 >the extreme variety of characteristics
 >in existing, "approved" meters.

Yes there is some variability due to the design and the quality of people making them.

 >The resulting meter,
 >even a one by a professional, would probably
 >be cheaper than the Scientology version.

No doubt, a good meter might cost 100 to 200 dollars at most TO PRODUCE with a good production line and comfortably paid workers. Unless of course you have to spend millions keeping the FDA off your back and other legal overhead.

Maybe you should go work for the FDA, they have a great need for E- meters. They keep stealing the Church's meters!

 >>I USE every E-meter that comes my way, I let my Eternity depend
 >>upon it.  If I don't like it, I burn it.
 
 >This sounds like the typical Scientology
 >attitude towards things they
 >don't like.

Well an E-meter is like an integrated circuit or a polio vaccine. If it doesn't work properly, a plane can crash or a person can die from it. Thus if there is any doubt as to its integrity, it should be destroyed or fixed. Burned is just my poetic way of describing it.

You assume that E-meters are simple mechanical toys with no useful function anyhow, therefore matters of pride, expertise and professional know how in what they are used for is unimportant.

You may also feel that Scientologists as a whole are so stupid and dumb that they would never know if they had an inferior piece of equipment in their hands in the first place.

If you are going to market any item you need to check out the potential market for that item, the nature of the people who will be paying you good money for it and their propensity to come back to you when things go wrong. People will always look for the best deal they can find, and if they find someone with more knowledge and good feelings about their subject who is selling E-meters they are more likely to go to them. Even if they have to pay a premium for the good vibes.

You can't turn a profit selling a product with one hand and giving your customer the finger with the other hand.

In any case no Scientologist in their right mind would buy an E- meter from anyone who held Scientology in contempt, and so the case is moot, because you are now quite out of business as far as E-meters are concerned.

 >I hold Scientology in contempt; I think anyone approaching
 >it from a viewpoint other than being gradually indoctrinated
 >into it by Scientologists would.

E-meters are easily available on the open market for less than $200, usually in the $100 to $150 range. I buy them and fix them and sell them all the time.

One would have to further warn Scientologists that anyone holding Scientology in contempt would probably place a hidden bug (error) in the E-meter just to give you grief as their intentions would be to discredit your longing for and ability to attain full OT.

That's Corruption, Temptation and Seduction.

I doubt they could resist the temptation.

You want to face OT III with an E-meter made by someone who would be better run out on OT III?

There are things worse on this planet than the Church of Scientology.

Electra

EVERYTHING GOOD

EXM - 17 ca. 1992

How come everything good any Scientologist says about Scientology is the result of total mindless Brainwashing, and everything bad any anti Scientologist says about Scientology is the result of long years of expert professional study.

It is amazing to me how people who have never been in the Church, who have not spent 20 years studying what the Old Man said, who have never tried to use any of it, are none the less the world's greatest experts on the subject.

There was never a moment's brainwashing when I was in the Church, subtle or otherwise. There was tremendous pressure to produce, to not mix practices and to not self audit or solo. Their main concern was production, they said screwing around with your own case could end you up so sick you couldn't be on post. For me that post was being an Auditor.

At worst my org could be charged with a sense of duty similar to what might be found in the military during a time of war, and perhaps they can be charged with having started a few wars of their own. However considering the mentality of the FDA and the Nixon government at the time, I would say they were probably beset by wave after wave of enemy assholes, and were probably justified in their feeling that they were in a war for their lives.

As to routine and practice drills, I can't believe how much horseshit is passed on this list concerning the training of Scientologists. This might as well be called Alt.Enquirer.Crap.

There are lots and lots and lots and lots of repetitive drills for the training of auditors, it is a skill that no one has yet mastered in the Church and no one ever will. The military hasn't the foggiest notion about repetitive training drills when it comes to comparing them to Scientology, in fact the head organization of Scientology is the Sea Org, practically a navy in its own right.

So look, take all this bullshit about brainwashing and repetitive drills being used to mindlessly indoctrinate pc's into weird mythologies, and stick it where it belongs.

The TRAINING of auditors is so rigorous that these patticake pansies who have nothing good to say about Scientology would not last a day, and if they did they would be just as incompetent when they left as when they entered.

And lastly, lets get one thing straight, from someone who has been involved in Scientology for YEARS and who has had the courage to tell the Church to go fuck itself, auditing itself has nothing at all to do with repetitive drills or brainwashing although there are many PROCESSES that use repetitive commands to get the being to finally answer the question or gain control over his own god damn asshole.

The implication that understanding is somehow drilled or indoctrinated into the preclear is pure hogwash and those who repeat this nonsense endlessly are hoping to indoctrinate YOU into believing their horseradish about Scientology.

No one can know more about Scientology than a Veteran Scientologist. To imply that everything they say is false because they are all brainwashed is unsubstantiated ad hominem. There is no one on the face of this Earth who is less brainwashed than Scientologists, even Churchies as they are Scientologists too.

If you want to find out about Scientology or its training drills for Auditors or the process of auditing itself, ASK A FUCKING SCIENTOLOGIST, don't ask some puke bellied mortal made of meat peon who makes a buck selling horror and sensationalism to a Zomboid Public snoring in their one life, one death, I am going to Heaven forever afterward stupor.

The process of taking a person up through the Scientology Grades is one of raising them up the Awareness Characteristic Chart level by level, from Hope and Help up through Clearing and Source.

This is a very long journey and is not easily understood at first especially by those snoozing down around CRIMINALITY, DISCONNECTION and UNEXISTENCE, people who can't conceive that someone might actually know more ABOUT THEM than themselves, and who tremble at the thought it might be so.

So please when you read all this brainwashing stuff about Scientologists, ask yourself who is the more brainwashed, the American Public or the staff of the Enquirer?

Electra, hopping mad at the CRAP that passes for wisdom on this planet.

All flames, C.O.D. please.

Electra

DO NOT JUDGE THE CHURCH BY ITS FOLLOWERS

EXM - 18 ca. 1992

If you are on this list for fun and games, then you should realize that there are others who consider Scientology a very serious business and your poking fun at them is immature beyond belief IF YOU HAVE NO DESIRE TO FIND OUT IF THEY ARE REALLY RIGHT OR WRONG. If you are here to find out the truth then of course you may poke as much fun as you wish.

 >     The rest of us probably do it out of a mixture of
 >intellectual stimulation and amusement.  I know that sounds
 >insulting and condescending but it seems unavoidable in view
 >of the fantasticness of some of the Scientology mythology
 >that's expressed here.

Perhaps it is unavoidable due to the depths of depravity that you have let your consciousness sink to. Now look, let's not get into a war here, but just assume for a moment, just PRETEND for a moment that the fantastic reality of the Scientologists happens to be right, would you be able to face having been so wrong and far removed from it all your life? Do YOU really have the confront to find out the Scientologists are right?

If you don't, then it is very unfair to us to bring your noise into the room since we have no recourse to reason with you. If on the other hand you are capable of admitting you are wrong and are really interested to find out the truth, and can admit that others found it before you and that you might have to learn something of importance from someone else, well then by all means make as much noise as you want.

Try to look at it from our point of view. Just what exactly is your purpose on this list? Anything less than finding out the truth makes you an asshole of magnitude, something that you imply the Scientologists are all the time.

 >  I think you have to expect this reaction in terms of the churches
 >past and future behavior.

Yes and I live in great shame for the disrepute that the Church brings on Scientology, A SHAME YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND UNTIL YOU REALIZE THAT SCIENTOLOGY IS BASICALLY CORRECT AND THE CHURCH IS BASICALLY CRAZY.

You insist, possibly intentionally, to confuse Scientology as a subject, and its followers, founders and political body. That's like judging Christ by his Christian followers.

I can only assume that you are doing this on purpose to confuse the matter because you yourself have no interest in discovering the TRUTH as it really is, whether that truth is that Scientology is bunk or correct.

If you are interested in the truth and not in covering up your own little ego, then you will stop discussing the Church, its followers, its founders or the behavior of anyone involved in the Church, and you will stick to discussing the subject and text of Scientology itself.

Perhaps you find it too incredible to believe that the man who discovered the cure for Spiritual insanity was himself Spiritually insane. I grant you this incredibility, for exactly one second, and then I expect you to grow up like the rest of us and try to repair the mess he made of a very worthwhile cause.

The TECH of Scientology, though written by the hand of LRH, stands above LRH and any who follow him. In fact LRH never applied the TECH to himself or anyone else, he was too busy holding the world from above. That is a bit harsh, but you would flip over backwards if you knew what the Free Zoners think about LRH and what he was up to at the end of his life.

So please put the founders and the followers out of your mind, and take up the torch of TRUTH, for it was TRUTH at 100.0 on the Expanded Tone Scale that spoke via LRH, and possibly was quite fed up with his shenanigans.

If you judge EVEN ONCE Scientology by its founders or followers, then it can be stated unequivocably that your own intentions are not pure and that you do not worship TRUTH but some other God or idol of stone, perhaps money or self aggrandizement. In which case you are no better than LRH and deserve the same fate that he is destined for.

 >For a group that includes the word 'science'
 >in their name, they could hardly be less scientific.

You keep SAYING THIS as if you know what you are talking about. Science is the result of observation, hypothesis and experimentation. Scientology STRICTLY followed those lines in its development and is therefore a science as sure as chemistry.

You can not possibly know anything of significance of the development of Scientology, of the observations, of the hypotheses and experimentation that went into it, and you also can not know much of the concrete results that arise out of proper application of these discoveries.

Now if you had read all of LRH's research papers and listened to his 500 tapes given during the early years, and had read all of his books like, 'Evolution of a Science' and 'Science of Survival' you would have a very clear idea of just how much work went into experimenting with people, making observations and drawing conclusions. That people got better, started to remember their past with immaculate perception and recall, regained basic purposes so old there are not numbers to count the age, and eventually got out of their bodies so that they could not be regimented or imprisoned by them, goes to prove conclusively that Scientology works and that the scientific work that went into making it work was all worth while.

That YOU don't BELIEVE in any of these fantastic results, leaves us wondering just how SCIENTIFIC your BELIEFS are, since they are founded on nothing except your own desire for a good time at the expense of the Scientologists. How many thousands of hours have you spent studying and doing experimentation with the Tech of Scientology to determine if it really produces the result it claims? Or do you get your hard and fast data from the National Enquirer or books written by others like yourself who could not and did not make the Tech do anything of import.

 >Their beliefs
 >and practices are not put to the test
 >based upon scientific methods.

This is YOUR BELIEF. Just because you were whacking your meat the decade it was being tested you now claim no tests were ever done.

This is preposterous. It is not necessary for the whole world to be present at the testing of a truth for that truth to be tested and known to be workable. All it takes is one person and then that one person knows it is true. Of course he can not expect anyone else to believe him unless he lets them test it too, but he has no moral obligation to let them do so.

If his heart is good he will want others to have the benefit of the data that he has determined to be true, especially if its benefits are as great as those claimed for Scientology, but he does not OWE it to anyone to let them in on his work.

 >The institution itself operates under principles of secrecy that put
 >the CIA to shame,

Quite true, and if you were involved in the development of a weapon as powerful as an Atomic Bomb you would also cloak your every move in secrecy. You can CLAIM that they wish secrecy because they really do not have anything at all, but that would be whistling into the wind and you know it. There is nothing more dangerous on this Earth than a full OT, they can move matter by looking at it, they can wander free where ever they want, there are no secrets from them, they can go behind other people's head and act for them, they can defuse an atomic bomb in flight.

Now you can withdraw into your terminal stupidity and claim that all this is nonsense, in which case you are no longer worth talking to as your reality would be too different from ours, but if you concede the possibility of these things, then you yourself must admit that secrecy would be desirable at least in the early stages, and that public proof would be the last thing good for anyone.

 >not the openness that characterizes and is required
 >for true scientific processes.

Required? This is fucking bullshit and you know it. All it takes is one person to test a truth and see if it works. Giving a truth greater credence because more than one person was able to duplicate the result is fine IF YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR CREDENCES DETERMINED BY THE OPINIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE.

I know I exist. I don't need anyone else's opinions on the matter. If I can get out of my body and go wandering around the pentagon and listen to what they are saying, then who the fuck cares if all the milk toast weenies in the world are lining up screaming 'prove it! prove it! It's not true unless you prove it to meeeeeee!' They can all go fuck themselves, right?

What would matter to me is that I could do such a thing and had a responsibility to use it in a correct fashion, and PROVING IT TO A WHOLE PILE OF WHINING MAMA'S BOYS THAT I COULD DO IT WOULD NOT BE THAT RESPONSIBILITY!

 >hence, one is forced to conclude that
 >the choice of name is for propaganda purposes
 >and an abuse of the term.

You can force yourself to conclude anything you desire to assuage your own ego and ignorance. Come Judgement Day, TRUTH will eat you up and spit you out.

The term Scientology is an early Whole Track term, it was designed at the beginning of time by US to be the name of the science that we eventually worked up to free ourselves from this universe.

Granted that is just more fantastic gobbledygook to you, but then you can't remember your whole track and others can. Perhaps you just can't imagine getting this far gone and never noticing that you had gone down the tubes as an Immortal Spiritual Being. Are you willing to admit the possibility of what I am saying about whole track? How then would YOU build an experiment to prove to YOU that you existed before this life?

You should be the first to admit that no one can ever prove to you that THEY have lived before. The only way you will ever know if its all true, is to remember yourself, right? But if you have shut down your own memory through ages of misadventure, who then are you going to demand proof of?

Who OWES it to you?

 >Some of this behavior is understandable and expected from some,
 >religions
 >but make up your minds which you're going to be: science or religion.
 >There's to much antithesis in the methods to be both.

((Why? Science is a field of knowledge concerning external physical phenomenon. Religion is a field of knowledge concerning internal spiritual phenomenon. The METHODS are the same, observe, hypothesize, predict, observe some more and verify or correct.))

There was until Scientology came along.

 >  I don't think a brainwashed person generally realizes or
 >acknowledges the brainwashing so the claim that it didn't
 >happen is not proof.

I don't think that a fucking asshole realizes he's a fucking asshole either.

Asserting to people that they don't think they are brainwashed because they are brainwashed only serves to bolster your own ego and false arguments.

Can YOU prove that you are not brainwashed? By your own arguments you can not. So I would leave the subject alone lest someone comes along and points the finger at YOU.

(("People who believe that 'past lives' are brainwashing, were brainwashed in past lives to believe so." - Electra))

 >However, it's also no proof that it
 >did either
 >hence this claim leaves the entire issue open until an outside,
 >objective party examines the situation freely and on a large
 >statistical scale (we can always find cases pro and con on an
 >anecdotal basis or false conclusions from too small a sample).
 >Is the church willing to lift its veil of secrecy and paranoia
 >to permit this ?

No. No one in their right mind would flaunt full OT power in order to prove that they had it. They might flaunt some tech to help you get reality on your memory problem at which point you would realize that OT was POSSIBLE. Then it becomes a whole new ball game.

The Church is not paranoid, the government and the FDA have for the longest time been scared stiff of the Church and their ability to produce OT's. You assume its all just bullshit and the government thinks so too.

The truth is the government is not a fucking asshole, and knows damn well that the world is a spiritual place and that OT powers are possible and desirable and out of their reach. Somewhere around 1960 they finally realized that Scientology had what they feared most and started their campaign to destroy, discredit or own and control the Church.

Due to the power of the actual OT's on the Church's side they survived all such attacks except for the last. The Church is now owned and controlled by a government.

 >What is Scientology desirous of
 >concealing from the public ?

Well the CHURCH is desirous of concealing that they are up to their ears in Corruption, Temptation and Seduction.

Scientology is desirous of concealing for a while just how far gone everybody is because it would cause a mass panic if people realized that this here Church was producing Atomic Powered OT's by the hundreds. Of course they aren't, but they COULD if they would get their ETHICS in.

The Free Zoners don't have any such problems with ethics, so OT's are being produced at full speed.

 >  Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a religion founded on
 >military
 >principles. Sounds like they're preparing for the new crusades.

Oh they are, they are. They fully expect a war to break out between the governments of the world and extant OT's. It may be a quiet war, but it will be a fight to the death for control of Earth.

About the only thing good that can be said for this, is that the true OT's in the Church are not bad guys, their hands are somewhat tied. So to the degree that the Church produces real OT's, they're doing good for the world.

People used to be OT's long ago. They lost their power because they had power without wisdom and ethics. It is impossible to get that power back without doing it right this time. Thus there is nothing to fear from an OT unless your own ethics are criminal.

However the Church is producing a lot of people who claim to be OT's and have the Certification of an OT, but who have not really made the grade. These guys you have to watch out for. Their ethics are still out as witnessed by the fact that they allow themselves to go gaily up the Bridge without actually attaining the full EP of each state.

 >     Religion is supposed to (for us pc's) be about
 >enlightenment, not conditioning and discipline.  In my
 >limited experience, military training is about learning to
 >react in a conditioned manner to established scenarios in
 >order to maximize the survival and benefit of the
 >organization, it is not about maximizing the benefit of the
 >individual or his/her welfare.  That is how a conditioned
 >method differs from scientific methods of psychology and
 >what makes it appear cult-like.

Yeah, yeah, sad to say. LRH was a military man. What excuse can I offer? There ain't none. But look, even the Japanese are running their corporations like the military now, with boot camp and all. That's really what is going on in Scientology with some unfortunate extremes. It is just an insanity on the loose. The answer is to audit it with standard Scientology Technology. The Church could use some auditing. They even have the money to pay for it.

 >     I don't think the claim was that pc's were being
 >repetitively drilled, it was that the Auditors were to
 >ensure no deviation from accepted dogma and to avoid any
 >independent critical thought about the practice and
 >procedures.

You have no business stating anything about Auditors, the Auditors code or Auditing as you are below ignorance on the subject.

If Auditors have ever been instructed to ensure no deviation from accepted dogma, again something you know nothing about, then I assure you that the whole Church where this happened should be burned to the ground.

 >It is
 >merely part of an unscientific belief system like any other
 >mythological
 >religion.

This statement is merely part of your unscientific belief system. You can ASSERT Scientology is unscientific belief all you want, that just means you played hookey the day the experiments were done.

>Since brainwashing is not a scientific term it's difficult to >ascertain what is meant by the claim that they are or are not. Perhaps >you would like to elaborate what is meant by the claim that they are >less brainwashed than anyone who is not a Scientologist? A pretty all >encompassing and self-righteous claim on its face.

Well if you are an Immortal Spiritual Being who can exist independent of a body and you are living a life AS a body with no memory of your responsibility for having chosen that body, and no cognizance of your immortality, that would seem to be pretty brainwashed now wouldn't it?

If you take such a being and get him to confess what is scaring him about Immortality, assuming he lives through it, and he suddenly gets out of his body and has nothing further to do with such pretenses, then that would seem to be less brainwashed now wouldn't it?

If some guy comes along and pretends he is a horsey and pats himself on the rump and says, Giddyap! you would think such a being a bit brainwashed. He thinks he is a horse.

Well your average thetan thinks he IS the body he is INSIDE OF. Cute.

So you find out why he is playing this deadly pretense on him self, WHAT HE IS HIDING FROM, and he gets out of his body, his body gets well, and he goes off and makes stars again. That would be unbrainwashing him.

 >Oh, this rational, erudite discourse has certainly convinced me.

Just remember there are OT's on this list, you come off as awfully fucking dumb to someone who can get out of their body and move things by looking at them.

Before you take on Scientology, you should consider well the possibility that all the fantastic stuff is true.

Then be circumspect when you attack, and only attack what you are dead certain of, otherwise you will have a sorry case of foot in mouth disease and while you think you are making fun of the OT's, the OT's will be laughing at you.

 >>     The process of taking a person up through the
 >>Scientology Grades is
 >>one of raising them up the Awareness Characteristic Chart level by,
 >>level
 >>from hope and help up through clearing and source.

 >  if you want to convince or at least enlighten us great unwashed,

 >you'll
 >have to drop the jargon, otherwise the effect and
 >apparent intention is to
 >create an aura of mystery and superiority.

Well there is both mystery and superiority. If someone is going to show you how to regain your full OTdom then surely they are superior to you for the moment.

If you are overwhelmed by the jargon, that's too bad, perhaps a baby course in Scientology could be invented for the illiterate.

 >Oh, but I forgot, scientists are probably
 >your enemies and cant understand because they haven't
 >reached a high enough level in the spiritual hierarchy.

Scientists are not our enemy. Smug fucking assholes are our enemy. Get your ass clean before you enter the forum.

 >What makes you think that we should think your crap is any
 >any better than the rest of ours? Intellectual perfume ?

What the fuck do you want? Proof? What would happen to you if an OT walked in the room and moved something with his mind?

Would you go to work the next day? Would it make any sense to?

Would you tell all the guys, hey guess what I saw yesterday!

This OT dude, man, picked up my bong and floated it across the room!

Just how much proof are you able to stand?

Fools rush in where angels dare not tread.

Electra

BASHERS AND PROOF

EXM - 20 ca. 1992

If you had the ability to move objects by looking at them, and I don't mean in your mind, I mean do it for real for all to see, and I don't mean a mass hallucination, but actually DO it, and if you had the ability to see other people's mental image pictures so that you could know what they were thinking about, and if you could go wandering around anywhere you wished undetected by anyone except others at the same power level, what would you do with those powers?

Would you demonstrate them to everyone in sight to show that salvation was at hand? Would you want others to know you had them? Let's say you could defend off maybe 10 to 100 people coming at you with guns and tanks, but you were not able to defend off an army or an entire police state coming after you.

What would you do when various forces started to go after your loved ones in order to make you destroy yourself or not use your powers? What would you do then?

Before any OT would demonstrate to you any power he might have, he would have to answer certain questions to himself. How many other people would you tell and what they would do? Would the OT lose his job if people thought he could move things, or if YOU went around saying he could and everyone thought the both of you were nuts?

Now the fact is that an OT would only want to demonstrate power to a person who was responsible enough to deal with the revelation. Are you such a person? How could you prove to THEM that they should prove to YOU that they can kill someone at a distance?

You know if they can move a pencil, they can move your central nervous system too!

Part of the secrecy in the Church is to protect people from the overwhelming data that pertains to why we lost these powers in the first place. I can attest to the fact that the OT levels are deadly if not done right.

The other reason the Church keeps this stuff secret is that it is part of their Ethical code that no OT should ever demonstrate or prove himself to anyone else that is not already an OT of the same level.

This is to prevent a mass hysteria from occurring in the world markets.

Now you might claim that this would not happen, but its a judgement call, and since they are the ones with the power, they get to make the call.

The idea that they should never have stated that they had such powers unless they were willing to PROVE it is the viewpoint of someone without power. Others who do not need proof from someone else's arsenal, are very grateful to know that powers have been reattained and are available for them to reattain too.

Some people might CLAIM that OT's refuse to prove themselves because they really can't do anything. If say this long enough and loudly enough you might provoke and OT into anger, and he might demonstrate some power for you. But I would not want to be around the day he did.

Or maybe people scream for proof because they don't believe it can be done. If proof were to be forthcoming, would they regret the day they were born for having been so stupid as to open Pandora's Box?

If all this nonsense is true about Scientology and OT, how would you have anyone prove it to you?

You will be judged carefully by the OT's on this list as to whether you are worthy of proof or any further consideration at all.

But sticking your tongue out at OT's daring them to boot you one will be met with dead silence and you will conclude that they really have nothing and really can do nothing, and YOUR LIFE will finish some day in a very smug self satisfied grave.

And you will probably be a real snot nosed asshole in your next life in kindergarten wishing to HELL you had some OT powers to kick your teacher's butt. But NOOOOOO, smug snot nosed asshole won't have a thing because he wasted all his time thumbing his nose at real OT's in his previous life, and wouldn't take the time to word clear the Expanded Emotional Tone Scale and the Awareness Characteristic Chart to see if it would open his mind a crack to the OT levels and give him some of that proof he couldn't STAND HAVING ANYHOW!

There is justice in the world, and ain't it sweet!

Electra

OT POWERS AND PROOF

EXM - 21

Another thing, if an OT has powers, he has those powers whether or not he has proved it to anyone. This is obvious. If he has powers he CAN prove it to anyone though, but whether he chooses to do so is his own prerogative, and in no way does his refusing to prove that he has them, lessen his ability to use them.

What people THINK about your power levels does not determine your power levels.

Some people might be foolish enough to claim to have powers when they don't but why are they worth any further consideration? The implication that ALL people who claim to have powers but won't prove it are self deluded is obviously illogical.

So the question really comes down to whether people really have those powers and what should they be doing with them?

Since power was lost because of misuse of power and regret, those of you who do not yet 'have' OT powers should spend some time thinking about what you would do with those powers. What lessons have you learned over the course of history?

In the first place, everyone has got OT powers, they are just using them to oppose themselves. A build your own cage kind of thing. That's why they are human.

Even if you don't have any whole track recall, you can think about how it would be unwise to use powers in this day and age and from there you might figure out how it would be wise. Then they would start coming back.

For example, if you could get out of your body and go wandering around the city, after you were done watching people making out and indulging in having children out of season and for the wrong reason, you could go on the look out for crime. If you saw a crime taking place you could have your body call it in to the police station. That would be fun, but would it be smart in the long run? Why? Why not?

If you saw some girl being raped or some child about to be murdered would this change your mind about calling the police anonymously?

What did that girl or that child do that got them into that gallery? If nothing, do they really want you interfering with their horror show?

If you could wander around the major corporations of the world and tell what they were doing, perhaps you could buy the correct stocks and sell them at the right time moving other people's money into your own pockets. Would that be wise?

With in the game, power is a privilege, and demonstration of it certainly not a right of people who do not believe in it and hope to hell it is not true. Such people rest easy when you fail to prove yourself because that is one less thing they have to worry about coming after them. They don't figure they could have power too, and even if they did they are just sure everyone would be against them anyhow. By being powerless, they can fade into the darkness and be left alone. The final dark aloneness is the grave.

The lesson learned from our past experiences as long ago OT's, is how to NOT use power once you have it. Once you know that, you can then proceed to use it to everyone's benefit. If you fail in this, you will just end up in some auditing chair of some Church of Scientology somewhere giving up your withholds again, paying a pretty penny for the right, and you wouldn't want that to happen again now would you?

Electra

IN DEFENSE OF DIANETICS

EXM - 22

 >... as far as I know, there is no proved connection from
 >the CoS to the Mob. Get SOME evidence on this, or drop it.

You as dumb as you sound?

If I had evidence on the matter, you think I would let anyone know I had that evidence?

The GOVERNMENT deals with the mob, you think maybe the Church of Scientology is less inclined?

 >If you COULD
 >prove such a thing, you could get the FBI to smash the CoS under the
 >RICO act so fast it would NOT BE FUNNY.

I do not wish the FBI to smash the Church. I wish the ACME pest control to come and spray the place for cockroaches.

I love the Church and would defend it to the death against Scientology bashers.

However, it needs some reform and the Scientology bashers inside the Church need a bath.

 >Let's try to develop a list of specific charges for the scientology
 >bashers. As I *still* understand matters, the charges boil down to
 >
 >1) Dianetics is a pseudoscience based on plagiarized theories,
 >which works no better (if not worse) than conventional psychology and
 >has worse side effects from it's method of application (IE: The CoS).

This is quite incorrect. Dianetics is a valid science that any one can try out for themselves. You will not run into engrams and know them as such until you start to contact some of the sorrow, anger and regret of your life. If you are a live once, die once, can't await the grave type you will have a lot of sorrow to cry before your engrams hit you square in the face.

At that point you will know for sure that engrams are real and that you have been using them all your life to build excuses into your body for not being able to cope.

Such engrams are called the Service Facsimile Chain and are a series of Motivators and Overts that you use to make others wrong, to make others succumb and to escape domination from others.

The are used to make others guilty, to say 'Look I am already hurt injured and mostly dead, leave me alone.'

Most people can not make Dianetics work because they would have to give up their fabricated illnesses and disabilities and pet ways of getting noble sympathy from others, and stand on their own two feet. This counter intention to getting better keeps them from being able to contact the charge they have pumped into their engrams.

Most people are also very busy believing their own lies, their own facades, their own excuses they have used to keep people at bay. 'That's not an engram, those are my eye glasses, it runs in the family!'

The only thing that runs in their family is diarrhea and THAT is why they need eye glasses. Run out the slave camp called early childhood, and the glasses go out the door along with the rest of their bull manure.

 >2) Dianetics hides a lack of meaning with vast amounts of Jargon.

This too is quite incorrect. Dianetics and Scientology encode more meaning that you dare to admit in a jargon that is absolutely necessary plus or minus some propensity for extremes.

The terms, lock, secondary, engram, remember, return, relive, key out, erasure, release, clear, motivator, overt, withhold, ARC Break, Present Time Problem, Service Facsimile and charge, are all absolutely necessary to this science and if you don't know what they mean then don't enter the cockpit.

By the way Dianetics as described in Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, is probably one of the biggest waste of times you will ever read. Hubbard says so himself on a number of tapes. If you are really interested in Dianetics or the Drug Rundown, you should get a hold of Dianetics Today. It is a thorough address to running 4 flow locks, secondaries and engrams on those who can contact the material.

You should also get a hold of Primal Scream and The Feeling Child, by Arthur Janov, for comparison.

 >3) The Church of Scientology ("CoS") is a corrupt racket for
 >pulling in money, which has had numerous members put in jail on
 >criminal
 >charges (from high up, too), and has engaged in various scare tactics
 >to try to destroy any significant opposition, no matter the form.

The Church of Scientology is an 8 cylinder engine running on 7 cylinders. It is a sprawling hierarchy of people studying everything from Dianetics up through the secret OT levels.

Most of the people in the Church are people who are honestly interested in their Eternal Futures, even yours although I can't imagine why they would waste their time with you, and most of them are engaged in an orderly progress up through the Bridge which they trust implicitly.

However the Bridge has been corrupted by those interested in their own personal fortunes, including possibly LRH himself, and also by external forces outside of the control of everyone ranging from multi million dollar corporations and governments to the illegal underworld and space aliens. No such thing? Right. Get a consciousness.

There are those in the Church who have intentions opposed to the intentions of TRUTH and DECENCY, and who have managed to purge from the Church a very large number of very able OT's who have continued in the Free Zone to research and deliver the correct technology without the mindless encumbrances of the policies and evil intentions of the few in the Church of Scientology who would see it turned from its true course.

 >Let's try to get this put together a little better than the typical
 >shouting match.

Then you should consider keeping your mouth shut on the matter as you clearly haven't the foggiest notion what you are talking about, and haven't taken the time to investigate thoroughly the claims of the Church or of Scientology, and you certainly have no business or claim as a Devil's Advocate on this list.

Would it be too much to ask that you stop referring to anonymous postings as FORGED with the attendant implication that I am doing something unethical by remaining anonymous which I am clearly not?

Electra

CAGED GOD

EXM - 23

 >One of the main aspects of being a brainwashed person is that if the
 >brainwashing is done correctly, you have no clue that you were
 >brainwashed.

One of the main aspects of being a fucking asshole is that if the fucking asshole process is done correctly you have no clue that you are a fucking asshole.

 >See above for "Why Brainwashed Persons Don't Know They've Been
 >Brainwashed

See above for 'Why Fucking Assholes Don't Know They are Fucking Assholes.'

 >Actually, I believe in reincarnation, it makes so much more sense than
 >an
 >eternal Afterlife.

You mean ala Christianity? Well so what part do you not believe in Scientology? If you exist from life to life, then clearly you are not a body but a conscious unit that can exist independent of the body. All we are claiming is that you have a Divine Source and have a heritage that is far greater than you have been allowed to admit.

Further we claim that the reason you have lost that heritage of spiritual freedom and power is due to your own overts and withholds and involvement in some very nasty spiritual wars a long time ago, OF YOUR OWN CHOOSING, that we all lost, and that with this tech of confession you can get back to your original pristine state and get off the Wheel of Birth and Death. In Scientology double think techno talk that's called a CLEARED THETA CLEAR. A Theta Clear is just someone who can stay out of his body even while it is hurt.

A Cleared Theta Clear is someone who is cleared all the way up and down his track and is miles above a Theta Clear.

Its just words, what don't you believe?

There is a process in Scientology used to produce early Clears. It was 'Invent a Lie.' It worked because all of the crap the non clear was stuck in was a lie he had invented to have a game and then refused to take responsibility for. By having the being invent lies until he could out invent the mess he was in, LRH was able to spring some early beings from their bodies and produce fast clears.

 >...they should cease this mindless bickering about "all other
 >methods
 >being worthless by comparison," and submit to tests of their methods
 >by
 >non-Scientologist people like myself, who have no particular bias
 >against
 >psychological methods, just against annoying supporters of those
 >methods

This is fine but you are asking to muck around in an Atomic Bomb factory, and the people who produce the bombs are a bit skeptical about letting a futz like you into the area to muck around doing your own experimentation when you don't know what you are doing. Perhaps they should let you in and let you kill yourself with demons from hell, or electronics that will burn your spine up, perhaps they should just kick you out and never talk to you again for your own good.

THEY DON'T OWE YOU A DEMONSTRATION. Some people are able to know that others have the truth even though there is no demonstration. They go in and they study and they practice the tech, and on a gradient scale they produce all the demonstrations that they need.

Just what is it you wish demonstrated or proved? How could it be proved to you?

 >In other words, I'm not as Suppressive as I appear to be...

Yeah but you might turn down the stupidity a bit if you wish to be given an audience with people who can blow you up from the inside out.

Look, Scientology is very simple. You are a being who can generate tremendous electrical power, on the order of Atom Bombs. You can make stars, you can snuff them out.

If you get into wars with other beings like yourself, you will develop bad memories of throwing all this power at each other in things called 'GLARE FIGHTS'. You know, two beings trying to stare each other down, burning up gigawatts of power doing it, lighting up the night sky for parsecs around.

Given enough time and regrets you eventually start to glare YOURSELF down into a safe state, which over a longer period of time ended you up as an Earthling with out any power at all except the ability to move a body around. How do you think you do that? That is direct mind over matter. You are pushing your brain around with simple direct telekinetic power.

A full OT can just pick his body up wholesale and drag it around with him, or even fly it through the air. Ever have flying dreams? Ever crash land?

So where did all that power go? It went nowhere, it went into opposing yourself. Thus all of your OT power is ON in present time keeping you an Earthling. Every time you stand up and try to spread your wings, you get pounded down by your own 40 gigawatt power plant.

The problem is, it is all very delicately balanced, and if you go mucking around in the structure of the cage you have built for yourself, you may trigger a release of pent up OT power that will bust your spine in two. You have 2 trillion years of charged capacitors, BIG capacitors, keeping you human, and if you touch something the wrong way you can die. DEAD.

Now all Scientology is, is a way to get a being to confront, remember and confess what he regrets about having used and abused his natural power to injure either accidentally or on purpose. When he gets to a point where he feels safe having this power again he will get it back.

It's just a tad dangerous to muck around with a caged GOD, when you don't know what you are doing. Especially when that god is raging mad from having been a human for so long.

Yeah we are talking about YOU.

In fact if you go inside the Church you will find all this wonderful stuff written down in the technical bulletins, just wonderfully magic technology that would free anybody. But no body in the Church ever reads the stuff, and there is even less correct application of it. Thus a sprawling monster of religious fanatics is born composed of very dumb and ugly people, every reject ever to walk the land.

Look, you yourself said, everyone in the Church is an asshole, right? Now imagine giving THEM the run of the Atomic Bomb factory? Thank God no one in the Church can read, imagine what they would do with the material if they understood it!

So YOU gotta go in and read what LRH said, and YOU gotta apply it until YOU can burn the town down, and then you will be free again because you will be the meanest son of a bitch in the valley and demons from hell will be kissing your feet begging to work for you. And if you pay them faithfully, they will be very loyal to you.

Electra

CROCKS AND OTHERS MATTERS

EXM - 24

 >I now "merely state" that these alleged powers of yours and
 >Scientology's do *NOT* exist, and that they are a crock of shit.

GOOD. Now we are getting somewhere. There is nothing wrong with you stating an opposite opinion to me. It is a lot simpler than demanding proof and calling me brainwashed for my statements. Further if I demanded YOU prove that these powers do NOT exist you would laugh me out of court.

So our cards are on the table.

So much more civilized.

 >Damn straight I am demanding proof. You claim to be able to do
 >such-and-such; I claim you are at best self-deceived, and at worst a
 >liar who has been kicked out of a crooked organization because you
er
 >either
 >weren't quite crooked enough or you were crooked to the wrong crook.

GOOD. This would follow if we assume that powers do not exist. Anyone claiming to have powers would then be a hallucinating psychotic with little to no hold on reality, let alone ethics or personal integrity.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 >You are not just claiming to have *found* something, such as
 >a spiritual state of nirvana.

You are quite correct, I am claiming something that goes way beyond some imaginary 'spiritual state', but something much more concrete, such as the ability to move a chunk of concrete with energy created by your own attention beams, something that you could do for real in the actual physical universe and something that others could see, measure.

Now, will you admit that DOING such a thing in front of the wrong crowd would or might cause a small tad of a freak out? Come on, I am being reasonable, I am not calling you names, I am asking you to admit just one tiny little thing, that if powers did exist, some people might seriously freak if they were demonstrated on them in the wrong way at the wrong time. So if some OT WERE to arrange a power demonstration for you, it would have to be arranged with some care and thought not only for the welfare of others, but also of yourself. Can you agree to that?

 >*That* I could easily believe, as it
 >can be brought about (temporarily) by certain drugs, so why not by
 >meditation triggered biofeedback endorphin release or some such?

So let's clear this up. Are 'spiritual states' real or just imaginary? Are they just conscious experiences of a being in a meat body, or are they really really SPIRITUAL experiences. If we are all made of meat, then there is no spirit anymore than there is God or powers or anything, right?

If there ARE true spiritual states, then you and me are both truly SPIRITS. That would follow no? How far can be take this? Could a spirit exist outside of a body, after it was dead? Could it communicate via direct thought or mental image pictures with other spirits? Could it move a pencil? Could it take over and command another body as its own? Even a baby body?

Or is 'spiritual' just another euphemism for psychotic bulldunk and really we are just made of meat and when we die, the conscious being dies too?

 >What you are claiming is to be able to ***DO*** something.
 >The correct response to this is generally, "put up or shut up."

The CORRECT response is "Jesus H Christ, I hope he doesn't ***DO*** something to me!"

Look, why apriori should he put up or shut up? He is informing others that he has powers and if others want them they can get them with some work from him or others. He is advertising to those who already suspect that powers exist, not to those who don't 'believe' in them, right?

If someone is selling tickets for the Challenger so that people can fly around the world, and some flat earther comes by and loudly proclaimed, 'the world is flat you can't fly, prove that it is round or stop offering your tickets!', you would laugh at him. There are lots of people who already think the world is round, and are glad to have the offer. The person demanding proof that the world is round is irrelevant is he not? His stating 'put up or shut up' is out of place because there is no need to prove anything to HIM to get everyone ELSE what THEY WANT.

The guy who is selling the tickets is not demanding or forcing that anyone believe him who doesn't. He is merely putting out an ad to those who want what he thinks he can offer.

 >Saul of Tarsus and Constantine are two of the most crucial
 >converts of Christianity. Not because of how big
 >they were in the Church, but because they were at one point fanatical
 >opponents of the church, who were, IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES, convinced
 >by Christianity. Dealing with the opponents of a church is always
 >important; if one of THEM becomes convinced, it gives much credence
 >to the cause.

Yes you are quite right. I presume that you mean that YOU are like the two converts and if someone could convert YOU to this new religion is would count for much. Do I have you right?

Well that is why I am spending time with you.

The Churchies would dismiss you as an SP.

So look the real question before ME now, is ARE YOU WILLING TO ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG about your position on no powers GIVEN SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE?

If you are not, then I should not waste my time as you would have some ulterior motive other than learning the truth.

Perhaps even with a total demonstration of power, you would a few weeks later just go back into thinking you just imagined it all and demand proof all over again. How could an OT be sure that the proof would STICK and you wouldn't just start thinking YOU were deluded?

From his point of view, would your say-so be enough? Would your own recommendation of yourself to an OT as a stable and capable person be enough to convince an OT that the proof would stick? If it didn't stick and you started to think you were deluded, what would happen to you, what would you do? Would you attack the OT and try to ruin him or his life for having played a trick on you? Would you BLAME the OT for your own inability to believe your own eyes?

On the other hand if you are able to admit you are wrong come the time that enough evidence is presented to you, then by all means you are worthy of attention.

So one last thing. As I have stated many times, IF I HAD power I would never let anyone know I had power unless they had it too. Thus from ME you could never get any demonstration of power, however you might get some other OT to demonstrate power to you. He would probably be thrown into OT ETHICS for doing so, but that's besides the point, you might get your demonstration.

But IF POWER EXISTS AS I CLAIM, is there any way you could think of that the existence of this power could be proved to you without actually exercising it? If you could come up with some such way then you would be much more likely to get the proof you seek without making some OT DO something.

It's round about, and I can just hear you building a flame, but look we still have this freak out problem to deal with. And someone who has power is going to be much more open to your desires for proof if he can prove to you that power exists without actually USING it.

Or even just give you some inkling that it might be there to get you into a probable possibility that power might exist.

One real cheap way that comes to mind is to help you remember a time you HAD power yourself in the past 75 trillion years. Of course you would have to have some hold on reality to deal with a memory that old and not go doubting it. But if its you, its you, right?

Electra

STRAIGHT JACKETS AND OTHER SUNDRIES OF EARTH

EXM - 26

I have never claimed to personally have, own or control OT powers. I have never stated and never will state where I am on the Scientology Bridge, what states I have attained, or what abilities I do or do not have either supernatural or otherwise.

Any efforts to FORCE, threaten or otherwise harass or harm me or my loved ones into making such statements or proving such abilities will be met with criminal prosecution.

For the record I make the following claims. These may or may not arise out of my own personal observation or may rest solely on circumstantial evidence, or worse delusions of grandeur.

They are not made to prove any thing to anyone, or make, force or cajole anyone into believing anything about anything. At best they are for your information concerning material you might wish to pursue further. At worst they are for your amusement only. Adults only please.

We are spiritual beings, our basis is CONSCIOUSNESS not physical matter. Indeed the physical universe does not exist at all but is a mind projection created by SOURCE.

As such, our heritage as Divine Spiritual Beings is all the power and abilities attendant upon willingness and ability to exercise that Source to its fullest. This includes feats of mental and physical prowess that would be considered supernatural by some and impossible by others.

These OT powers as they are called in the Church of Scientology are potentially available in everyone, as not only does everyone have a soul, everyone IS a soul and an Immortal Soul to boot.

I further state that there are always beings on this planet who have these powers, and that these powers have been attained by others who have traveled out the top of the Standard Scientology Bridge. It is possible that the presently offered Bridge in the Church does not go as high as it might, but in the Free Zone the Bridge goes as high as beings have been able to make it go with the potential of going higher.

With competition comes quality and affordability.

I might also state that L. Ron Hubbard and many of his early preclears travelled this Bridge in its entirety and thus had many of the powers that they have described in their writings to one degree or another. There is quite a range from being able to lift a brick off the ground to being able to snuff our stars. It is all a gradient scale which each being can walk along to greater personal freedom and ability.

Most people do not need to snuff out stars, it would be nice if there were only peace on Earth. However any OT worth his salt, any FULL OT WHICH I AM NOT, should be able to move out of his body at will, move his body and other objects of a reasonable size by direct mental attention, read minds of other people by looking directly at their mental image pictures and even leave this universe entirely and wander around the next one out.

The main problem with this theory is that when people take a good look at it, they run square into the middle of their OT III Wall of Fire which ends them up in an Overwhelm of magnitude. However not only does LRH discuss the idea that the external universe is a mental mockup, if this is indeed true, it should be easy to prove to yourself with a little thought and courage.

As LRH has said, 'there may be such a thing as courage, but there is no such thing as sanity totally opposed'.

It is true that if you believe in the existence of the physical universe, then it would be nigh impossible to explain how a meat body could have any OT powers. Such powers would be very hard to explain needing an almost unfathomably complex and ridiculous physical theory to explain it. Further since the existence of these powers are not needed to explain any presently known physical universe phenomenon, Occam's Razor would ask that you not bring them into the equation in the first place.

Conversely the existence of such powers would immediately throw doubt on the existence of the external physical universe, and one might find a better theory by starting off with CONSCIOUSNESS and CONSCIOUS BEINGS as the fundamental building blocks of existence rather than cold and uncaring matter, energy, space and time.

In the presence of OT powers, Occam's Razor would request that you look at the possibility that Life is a Hologram of Source.

In this case the mind and soul are not made of the light picture we call a body, and so do not depend on its existence to live. This immediately leads to the conclusion that personality, memory, consciousness and anything else associated with your true beingness are not contained in the functionality of the body, but are resident in YOU and you take them with you when you leave the body at death.

There remains the question that if all this is true, how come we don't remember any of our past lives? I leave the answer up to the reader to solve for himself.

That these views outrage the sensibilities of the 'made of meat crowd', does not change the fact that they are just views presented for your amusement or enlightenment depending on your own proclivities.

 >...but unless
 >at least circumstantial evidence exists, I don't think a court
 >would allow that it (OT powers) exists.

The incontrovertible fact remains that it is totally impossible to prove that OT powers do not exist, just as it is impossible to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you really disappear forever when you die. However one simple demonstration of OT power would conclusively prove that OT powers did exist and one simple memory of a between lives event would prove to you that you had lived before.

You can never prove that something does not exist, any more than you can prove that Unicorns do not exist.

Further there is no absolute proof that the external physical universe exists as actual matter, energy, space and time. All of your evidence about its existence comes through your consciousness, and there is no way to prove that it is not being projected from within. I am sure that such statements make the more unstable of us murderously mad as they can not confront the ramifications of such a preposterous theory.

However there is no proof that the world is not a dream, and if the world IS a dream, then it is clearly an OT power just to be in the dream sharing it with others and 'not having any OT powers at all'. And in fact that would then be the route back to OT. Once you were able to CREATE your present state of NOT having OT powers, you would be RE OPERATING your OT powers, and you could then willingly cease to use them to oppose yourself, and start using them to HAVE OT powers.

This is called in Scientology, taking responsibility for your condition. It means to own up to having created the powerless condition you were in, in the first place, as creating THAT mess was an OT power of magnitude. Only a God can limit himself. And it takes true God power to do so. If this begins to freak you out, remember OT III and the Wall of Fire. Be cool and let it go.

As the Bible says, 'Remember the Battle and do no more.'

 >And thus, why should I not go looking for a
 >straightjacket for your birthday?

Because you do not really know for sure who is right or wrong, and America was based on the foundations of freedom of thought and personal rights to religious belief, and if my religion says we are all spirits, and that the world is a co dream and that all spirits can walk the road to Godhood, then who are you to lock me up?

You could never prove the theory wrong even if it were wrong, and yet if the theory were right it could be demonstrated with ease if anyone had the guts or ability to do so.

I hope others on this list are taking a very good look at you, as you have finally shown your true colors.

You have switched over from using the word BRAINWASHING to STRAIGHT JACKETS.

Those who wish to put people in straight jackets for their religious or scientific BELIEFS were themselves put in a straight jacket long ago and are still in one.

 >I would stipulate that done at random, it would cause
 >people to freak out big time; pillars of fire floating in the
 >night tend to freak out the masses.
 >However, if you were to contact a physics department and told
 >them that you were going to take a chunk of concrete and hold
 >it telekinetically 1.5 meters above the floor... they would
 >probably be happy to let you do a simple demonstration, and
 >then go investigate it once you did. Most scientists are willing
 >to accept someone coming up with something new... however odd.

This is your opinion. I stipulate that most scientists, unless they had a VERY spiritual background, would drop their smocks, go screaming out the doors and become very very unstable for the rest of their lives. The OT III Wall of Fire is the source of all your childhood nightmares, it is an incident of such magnitude that no one is WILLING to be an OT anymore. It would be highly destructive to ANYONE not well braced or trained in OTdom to demonstrate any inkling of the kind of power I am talking about.

This is my opinion. If I had such powers, which I do not claim, I would have to make the final decision in such matters and the consequences would rest on my shoulders if my actions should come to great damage to even one human being.

 >It is possible
 >and consistent with some religions for not EVERYONE to have a soul.

Yes and no doubt you are one such person.

 >Nor have I
 >seen evidence that spirits exist, or that if spirits exist, humans
 >are lucky enough to have them.

This is more a statement about your own contact with your own consciousness and the nature of that consciousness than it has any bearing on scientific fact. When you look in the mirror, do you see a meatball or a conscious unit?

 >You're still jumping to conclusions. Have you ever
 >considered that your soul might NOT be immortal?

The question is does the external physical universe exist, and is consciousness and the soul merely a conglomeration of atoms and electrons whirring around? Or is consciousness something different than the physical brain? Does the brain even exist or is it all just a picture in consciousness? If you are going to insist on the existence of external rock, then surely my whole viewpoint is bunk as your consciousness is raw meat and will die when the body dies.

That's not a Mortal Soul, thats incipient carrion.

Now even if I am right, your soul might still be mortal, I merely state for your amusement that it is not, and you will find this out on OT IV.

I am not sure anyone has ever done OT IV properly, but if they had, that's the EP of it.

 >As for doing something to me, I
 >believe Scientology says that Thetans are indestructible; thus,
 >if he HAS the truth and fries this lump of flesh, "I" still
 >exist, and in not much worse shape. No loss. If he chooses
 >a less destructive demo, all's well, and I learn something.
 >SO NO MATTER WHAT, I'm no worse off for asking for the proof.

Quite true. Notice however the word ASK.

So far you have been DEMANDING with self righteous indignation.

 >Plus, it gives me a chance to find out whether this individual
 >is indeed in dire need of a very long sleeved white jacket.

So now who is the loon? Or is violent religious bigot more to the point? How about fanatical Inquisitor and Secret Soul Police of the One True No Way?

Am I the only one who thinks threatening me for my beliefs is a little out of line and in fact demonstrates your own personal unfitness for life in American Society?

 >>     Look, why apriori should he put up or shut up.
 
 >He should demonstrate this, so that we have reason not to
 >call for the nice men in the white coats, with the very long
 >sleeved white jacket.

What I see you doing is trying to FORCE him to prove his position by threatening his personal sovereignty. This is exactly why OT's never talk about their OT powers except in certain company because it sets into motion a whole very dangerous chain reaction of disbelievers trying to destroy them. For their own good of course and to protect society from those silly false beliefs.

The FACT is that even if an OT DID prove he had such powers, previous disbelievers would STILL try to put him away in an insane asylum, because the one thing they fear more than someone who falsely claims to have powers, is someone who really does have power.

Any OT can be overcome if enough people attack him or his non OT friends. Only a few would give him notice if he merely came out and claimed he had powers. A whole world could come out in violent force if he actually demonstrated it.

Thus you will NEVER find ANYONE demonstrating OT power except perhaps privately to you as your last breath. They would make sure you had no memory of it in your next life too, by crushing it out with more force than you could easily duplicate. Just as people convulsively forget traumatic incidents in this life that are too painful to remember, just so could an OT make sure that your memory of his demonstration would be too painful to remember for many lifetimes.

And lastly, if you ever did manage to corner an OT and somehow make him demonstrate his powers against his will, you would have made an enemy for life of magnitude and now that you KNOW he had powers, you would have opened a small Pandora's Box for yourself, no?

 >Sure. So is the Amazing Randi... and what's more, he'll
 >pay $10000 to anyone who DOES convince him that psychic powers
 >work.

OT's that demonstrate power to make money are despicable. You know its fine for you to say 'well they are just saying that because they can't really do it, nyah, nyah, ny, nyah, nyah'.

 >You can't be sure of anything.

Precisely, which is why no OT will ever demonstrate power to you for any reason period. And if you continue to make threats about straight jackets and things, he won't even mention he has the power to you, and everyone else on earth will find out about it, get the power, and you will be last to know.

 >Not exactly. You will have to accept that I consider you
 >to be a threat to society due to your self-delusion, and should
 >thus be institutionalized. Your proof is requested to give me
 >reason to try to do otherwise.

Frankly I think YOU are a threat to society because of your delusion that I am a threat to society. You have not demonstrated how I would be a threat just because I believed that OT powers were possible to attain.

 >To summarize: you seem to believe something, which, if it was
 >not true, would qualify you as a potentially dangerous lunatic.

This is an assertion of magnitude. Half the civilized world believes in reincarnation and the spiritual journey, astral travel, telepathy and spiritual powers, not to mention devils and gods and goddesses. That they are all over 'there' in the Orient and Middle East does not lessen the fact that you are going to run out of straight jackets very soon.

 >While
 >it cannot be CERTAIN that a demonstration of some sort would convince
 >me of the validity of your belief, it is likely that it would be good
 >enough if I set the nature of the demonstration.

I am sorry, if I had such powers, which I do not claim, your 'likely' would not be sufficient for me to feel safe demonstrating them to you. Not to mention your tiny little attitude problem concerning freedom of religion, congregation, practice and belief.

 >I feel that the hour
 >and 1.5 meter 2 kg chunk of concrete demonstration would be fully
 >enough to convince me if it were done as above; I don't think that I
 >could be deceived into believing such a thing barring pentathol
 >assisted hypnosis (I make a VERY bad hypnotic subject).

I am sure that you could be easily convinced. The question is how long would it last until you finally decided that it was all a hallucination that it ever occurred on your part and YOU went and got a straight jacket for yourself?

Now THERE's a pleasant thought. Perhaps I can entice an OT someone on the net somewhere to do a demo for you.

YEOOOOOW! Ouch! Sorry I brought it up.

 >3) I submit that such a person is a threat to society and should
 >be locked up.

I submit that anyone who thinks that his guilt is alleviated by the death of Christ on the Cross is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who does not accept that his guilt is alleviated by the death of Christ on the Cross is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who is a homosexual or a lesbian is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who is opposed to abortion is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who is for abortion is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who is for gun control is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who is against gun control is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who is for segregation is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who is against segregation is a threat to society and should be locked up.

I submit that anyone who thinks that we are all Spiritual Beings with Divine Source as our heritage should be locked up.

 >7) No demonstration could be ABSOLUTELY certain of permanently
 >convincing me, as far as you know. (There is no surety this side
 >of the grave.

'THERE IS NO SURETY THIS SIDE OF THE GRAVE.'

Date/Locate the implant that contains that phrase.

Not true. You can be gotten out of a body while it is still alive, that's all that happens when you die, you get out. If you are out now, and you can wander around and you can move objects, then you have all the evidence you would need. You need to get to OT VI to have all those abilities, but you would regain much of your memory for those abilities and WHY YOU LOST them way down near the bottom of the bridge. So really just get some auditing, and specify that you want your memory back, and not just some false memory either, but verifiable memory, and see what happens.

If I were a loon as you allege then perhaps I could not confront being wrong. But actually a demo might fail for many reasons, not unlike being unable to get a hard-on around some girl who turns you off. I would have to go nurse my wounds for sure. But I might come back and try again. Or I might realize that I can only do it sometimes, and you would just have to be there when the power flowed. Maybe some OT's can only do it when it is RIGHT to do and if you ain't there you miss it, sort of like a shooting star.

 >10) If such a demonstration failed, I would feel no reason not
 >to go ahead with commitment proceedings.

Well now that you have warned every OT in the universe of your intentions, you can be sure that they won't demonstrate, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU YOURSELF HAVE CLAIMED THAT NOTHING CAN BE GUARANTEED TO CONVINCE YOU. THUS THE DEMO MIGHT FAIL ONLY BECAUSE OF YOUR DOUBT OR BECAUSE YOU GO BACK ON YOURSELF LATER. THUS AN OT MAY HAVE GIVEN YOU ALL THE PROOF ANYONE COULD HAVE NEEDED YET DUE TO YOUR OWN SHORTCOMINGS YOU MIGHT TRY TO HAVE HIM COMMITTED ANYHOW.

Sorry, you make a bad risk when it comes to demos.

 >Doesn't claiming you have powers
 >count as "letting someone know"? It doesn't PROVE it or anything...

Well an OT telling you he had power would not really be letting you know because you would write it off as a joke. So I mean I would not let someone KNOW I had power unless we both had it, and OT's who have that kind of power can read each others minds and tell they do anyhow so its really no problem knowing who to go romping around the universe with.

But actually I would not even STATE that I had power if I did, because of all the fucking assholes that would come after me with straightjackets screaming PROVE IT OR DIE!

Its like, why walk into a hornets nest waving a stick?

 >I'm an engineer: if I can measure it, I might believe it.

In other words your own memory is not a source of certainty to you, just as your own consciousness is not a source of certainty that you are a soul?

If your memory of your own power times is invalid to you as possibly deluded, then how much more shaky would your memory of someone else's demonstration of power be?

Electra

OPEN, CLOSED AND FREE

EXM - 27

There are three kinds of minds corresponding to three different case states.

     1.) CLOSED MINDS
     2.) OPEN   MINDS
     3.) FREE   MINDS

The purpose of a mind is to observe data, draw conclusions, make decisions and act.

The CLOSED mind has already made its mind up regardless of the evidence or data presented to it. Its opinion does not change with the flow of incoming data. It is stuck in an ARBITRARY CONCLUSION which results in a FIXED DECISION which produces CHRONIC WRONG ACTION.

The OPEN mind refuses to make up its mind regardless of what data or evidence comes its way. It HAS no opinion and stays that way no matter what it learns. It is stuck in an ARBITRARY NO CONCLUSION which results in a FIXED NO DECISION which produces CHRONIC NO ACTION.

A FREE mind is able to draw conclusions accurately from the data at hand, make decisions swiftly and then act effectively.

Most people would claim that having a closed mind is a bad thing. But the Church considers a closed mind a good thing because they don't want anyone to consider anything right other than the Church.

Most people would claim that having an open mind is a good thing, but what they mean by an open mind is what we are calling here a free mind. An open mind is someone who can never draw a conclusion or make a decision or adjudicate relative rightness or wrongness. The Church doesn't like open minds because such people never make their minds up that the Church is a good thing and ought to be continued.

But what the Church fears most is a FREE mind.

Scientology bashers have closed minds in that they have a fixed decision against Scientology regardless of the facts.

Scientology Churchies have closed minds in that they have a fixed decision for the Church regardless of the facts.

Free Zoners have free minds and can keep the Church and Scientology separate.

The unfortunate aspect is that the Church is RIFE from top to bottom with people who are not Scientologists. They have never made any case gain, they either have a closed mind against Scientology or a closed mind for Scientology, or an open mind that can never learn what's true. Such people are in the Church because it is a JOB. It pays well, it allows them the freedom and license to dramatize for a powerful organization, and it allows them to remain the closed or open mind that they are.

No FREE mind would attack the Free Zone.

No FREE mind would mindlessly attack Scientology.

The Church is a citadel of Corruption, Temptation and Seduction and will soon go the way of all flesh if it does not clean up its act.

Scientology is a spark of fire in the cold dark night of the Soul, fan the flames of Truth well.

Electra