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Space Author: punkfloyd Posted: 2001-11-26 11:04 Ok. This is a bit too abstract but it does relate to Scn in a way, so what the hell. Perhaps some people remembe rthe unending debates about what is space and what "Viewpoint of dimension is supposed to mean". Well here's another viewpoint. As you know, mathgematicians LOVE to abstract everything to its limits, and "space" is a prime example of this trend. They gave many definitions of space, all of them very very abstract. However there is one that seems to have some interesting relationship to what Scn talks about. First, imagine there is a part of space. Doesn't matter how big, small or in what shape. If we have a person ("observer" in Quantum lingo), looking at it, we will find that he can look at the space in many different ways, from many viewpoints. And not only can he look, he can also make measurements of all kinds of things in the space using all kinds of instruments. All those possible ways to describe things in space are called "observables", something very close to "viewpoints" in spirit. So we see to get an experience of the space you need two things: an observable and the particular state of the space (is it full of air or some other gas? are there any electric fields in it? etc). That is Experience = Observable + State Physicists like to say that states turn observables into their actual values. Now turns out one can combine those observables in ways that are similar to the rules of elementary algebra. You can add, subtract, multiply etc. The exact way depends on what you are observing but the idea is the same. The fancy name for all this is C-star algebra of observables. It turns out all things you can reasonably say about the space you can also say using the language of the C-start algebra. So far so good. We just got ourselves a new way to talk about things. But here is the best part. Imagine we create a bunch of abstract things and just postulate the operations of addition, multiplication etc just like the ones in C-star algebras. We just mathematically postulate an algebra out of the blue. Turn out we can *always* make a space out of it. It might not be always exactly like our familiar space but it'll share many important properties. So that's how one can go about creating a space. Just make some abstract "viewpoints" (or , more properly observables), then combine them according to simple rules and bingo - you got space. I personally think that's cool. The exact theorem here is called "Gel'fand-Newmark theorem" This fact was apparently known since 1940's but it is not used in much of mainstream science, probably because it is so damn abstract. Also the exact mathematics involved can be pretty difficult. However it seems to be gaining favour , especially among people who research quantum gravity. best, punkfloyd Author: virginia Posted: 2001-11-26 16:54 Too boring over on fzint, punkie? 
Virginia Author: John Posted: 2001-11-26 17:31 ...the final frontier. Author: John Posted: 2001-11-26 17:39 Hey Floyd, I thought for a minute that this was virginia's post. So you think space is an observable? What if I told you that the whole of space-time is an isomorphic field generated within the mind of the human brain. The spirit observes this hologram, and postulates new existences at each glance. Because each new glance, each blink of the eye, is a universe matrix field generated by hyperdimensional fields such as consciousness. The universe is flat; it is because we view space-time as Einstein theorized, we tend to flow in one time dimension only, and that is the second dimension. The third dimension is the wave form which spirals around the flow of time like DNA, if you add a corresponding wave form to morph and fuse into an ordered system. It takes billions of gigawatts of consciousness to generate this stuff, and you think we are creating it collectively? Tell me again how much information the human brain can deal with again? If we are Gods, then we have fallen very far, and we are neck deep in sin. God generates truth, satan generates lies. Birth is creation, death is destruction, not rebirth. 
Author: punkfloyd Posted: 2001-11-27 03:01 >So you think space is an observable? It is not one observable it is an entire collection of them. One can say it is everything you can objectively measure in the universe. >What if I told you that the whole of space-time is an isomorphic field generated within the mind of the human brain. I'd say "huh?" Isomorphic can be only to something. It simply means "same in structure as". What exact "structure" is being referred depends on context. Example: "this apple is isomorphic to each other", "military organizations of these two countries are isomorphic (to each other)" I really doubt Human brain can possibly be isomorphic (in any sense) to the entire Universe. First, it's only a small portion of the Universe. Second, it is actually a part of what is being observed. >The spirit observes this hologram, and postulates new existences at each glance. That implies that time is not a part of the universe, which I think it is. In terms of measurements you do not measure "where the car is", then measure the same thing again, then mesure it again. Instead you observe "where the car is at 12:01", "where the car is at 12:02", "Where the car is at 12:03". Time is a part of a measurement. There's a great deal of controversy here, but my suspicion is that the entire time track - future, past and present is being created in one fell swoop. This is quite in line with Einstein's relativity of space and time. By the way, the C-star algebras I talked about can work either way, it all depends on how you put them together. as of the second part of your post, I have honestly no idea what are you talking about. I try but I cannot. I only get some very vague notion which I am not even sure has anything with what you have in mind. Can you please use plain English as much as possible? That'd help to communicate your message, I am positive
Yes, I know, I do use fancy words once in a while myself, but I always try to explain what they mean first. punkfloyd Author: virginia Posted: 2001-11-27 03:24 There you two go again, WAY off the subject of knowing how to know, Scientology. Just like the old board. Isn't there some kind of science board somewheres you two can go play on? And Punkie MUST be bored on fzint, to be playing with John just to have a "reason" to stay on THIS board. 
Virginia Author: virginia Posted: 2001-11-27 03:29 John, you said: ...the final frontier. That wasn't your thought by the way, I got the same thought earlier today when I saw punkie's post, ergo, it's punkie's thought! Non-verbalized of course. Bet you didn't KNOW it was punkie's thought til now though, right John? You have got to learn to not let just any old thought just "come on out" right through YOU, we talked about that before, remember? Wonder if Punkie knows his thoughts are that loud sometimes... 
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