Free Zone America Forum 2001 : I am going to FZAOLA!

I am going to FZAOLA!

Free Zone America Forum 2001: I am going to FZAOLA!

I am going to FZAOLA!

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Archive through August 09, 2001 25 08/11 03:42am

Author: pinolero
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 02:31 pm

Hello! i know this will sound like, but of course, what else did you expected! But I had been having a lot of fun with my meter, A modified mark V practicing here dating drills.

It had been working wonderful! Lots and lot of fun. Like
Holy mackerel that thing actualy works!

But you know, its the first time that I had been using a meter and before going in the course I was in a paralizing horror shock at the idea of handling it.

After some drills, I stopped worshipping the thin, then the first cognition in the confronting the e-meter was: "Ufff! It's dead! thank godness! It dont move if I dont touch it!

Then after a while I come to realize "Its a thing.What do you know! Its a thing!

Then after was "Its a tool! Oh yeah, Its a tool, and I am going to learn to use it!

And so I left that adoring state that I used to have respect to the meter.

And today I have a enormous win flying the ruds solo by first time, I found and actual ARCX, and if came to LFBD after I found it and then a f/N, and because of my twins were OT I I have lots of oportunities of looking actual F/Ns, so I know one when I see it.

This is great because now even if I am not in auditing lines I can key-out anything that life and MEST can key-in.

But, by the way I am in contact in my area with a Class O auditor and this weekend start my ARC StraightWire.

So, what are you guys doing this weekend?

Author: Shogun:-
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 04:06 pm

wow.......

Author: fzaolaEO
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 04:11 pm

Tommy - true colors being revealed here.
You have assurred your own failure through your created
enemies.
I now stand with your opponents.

Author: yotomigo
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 04:19 pm

Opponents? Who are the opponents? What do the teams represent? What is the goal of the game? Please clarify.

Author: alice
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 05:04 pm

I think that I'm having a religious experience!

I'll have to get back to you...

Author: Pathfinder
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 05:24 pm

Did somebody take a dump and forget to do a courtesy flush?
My lysol can is empty could some body please spray

Author: Journeyman
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 07:14 pm

Tommy wrote:

>One more and I will quit:

>KGB (Kevin Brady?) Writ:

Yes, Kevin G. Brady (Grant):

>>When people start dramatizing military valences, like "Commanding Officer", I can understand people not wanting to communicate with them.

>Sorry dude. Not a dramatized valence. It is a purposeful >hat. Good definitions exist in the Admin Dictionary.

Good definitions exist in Webster's, too.

>> Tommy was directly threatening Shogun, in an attempt to create fear.

>Nope. It was not an attempt.

Bluster, bluster.

>> If Tommy is psycho enough to do that, Shogun is correct to
disconnect from him, in my estimation. Who knows if Tommy is crazy enough to actually follow through and do harm to someone for communicating.

>I do. You dont.

Right... I thought that was what I said.

>>And your eval of me being crazy for being able to use force

Not at all, I think you are crazy for trying to USE force. A different thing altogether. Even a child can throw rocks.

>tells me where you are at regarding the physical universe. I see you too.

How spooky.

>>So far, the major communications I have seen from him have been: He is starting his own org to make Standard Tech available outside to public desiring that.

>Correct.

VWD.

>>He is not interested in any of the advances made in the FZ since the departure of Ron.

>Not exactly. I am aware of them and make it plain that I am aware of them, and they should be included where possible.

Great. So, when will you publish a line-up that includes them, and point out where things are Standard, and where they are not?

>>He is only interested in helping people who do not need help.

>Non sequitur, total misduplication on your part.

Then I apologize. My understanding was garnered from an earlier posting, in which you posted your rates, and another, in which you state something to the effect that those who cannot exchange need not apply.

>>He is interested in controlling other people's comm lines, and willing to threaten people in this quest.

>LOL. And you are only interested in controlling people 's com lines through covert com to this degree.

Which comm of mine was covert? What efforts at control were concealed?

>>I have asked him repeatedly to define what Standard Tech is, in a way that is not nebulous, and he has declined to do so.

>Really?

Yeah, really. At A.C.T., where it started a long thread, which you had limited or no participation in, but Ralph did, as did DuCharme.

>No kidding?

No kidding.

>Perhaps you have some sort of copy of these "repeated questions".

Sure, or you could simply pay attention to your environment? No I didn't email you. I asked the questions in public forums, where you are a regular contributor, REPEATEDLY.

>Or are you simply lying for your own amusement?

Or are you speculating stupidly for your own aggrandizement?

>I most likely would tell you to study Scientology for yourself.

DUH. I have. That's how I know how many different line-ups are available in Scientology. I am wondering which one you will be presenting as "Standard". Which Grade Chart? From which time period? With what line-up? Which Admin Policies will you consider your senior data? Which one's do you consider suspect of RTC influence/change?

>I am not going to try to establish some sort of a hidden data line.

In other words, you won't answer.

>If you want to know what Standard Scientology is, then study the materials.

I have. That's how I know to ask the question. Unless you mean Standard Bait and Switch Tech, and then I do know what you mean.

>> Although I am glad a place has been created where people can go for auditing and training, I BEG Tommy to stop dramatizing military valences, come up to present time, get on with clearing and training, and cease the make-wrong, environmental control that I have observed.

Drop Dead.

Nah. Sorry, your OT VIII powers ain't working, today.

> Your perception of what I do or not do has not the slightest value or influence on me.

So don't answer me. You were influenced at least that much.

>If you are glad that places have been created for auditing and training, I suggest you avail yourself of it.

I have plans to. But not under the aegis of a resurrected SO Arrogant.

> All the begging in the world for me to lay down, play dead, and not have effects on the dynamics will do you no good at all.

Cool. I never asked you to lay down and play dead. Restudy your materials.

> I am simply going to go on clearing people and making OTs.

Great. I never intended any differently.

> Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Wow, that was almost a communication! There are other options than your shiny swords and fighter valences.

kgb

Author: RedFred
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 11:08 pm

At the risk of catching a little BPC from you guys, I'd like to say I respect the doingness that Tommy is all about and think he deserves our support. So he can bark some. It's probablly just SO training ingrained in his being. Let's not make a big deal over a little huff & Puff. :-)

Author: Xenu
Posted: Thur Aug 09 2001 11:26 pm

Author: VAST
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 12:06 am

Would you like some more auditing XENU? How about a little Power Process 1? Or will it be Power Process 6 today? I know where you are and can ALWAYS get in comm with you.

Author: Journeyman
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 12:09 am

Xenu, you have me laughing. Are you related to Wile-e-Coyote?

kgb

Author: Pathfinder
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 07:09 am

sniff, sniff
it smells a little better in here now
Thanks for the spray guys

Author: NOANSWER
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 08:24 am

Tommy, I am quite aware of the responsibility that you have taken upon yourself and the roads that you are travelling on. I think that's great.

But your above posts has shown me some really unpleasant statements. Why are you demonstrating this very defensive attitude towards others?

I have never seen this kind of responses by those who represent Ron's org. If I compare your posts to those of these wonderful beings from Ron's org (and I am not saying that you aren't), I can only come to one conclusion: THE REAL AND TOTAL BRIDGE OF FREEDOM IS AT RONS ORG!

I am sure that you can take someone to OT8. But your posts has demonstrated that there are levels above OT8, which needs to be taken into consideration and needs to be run. Your AO's don't deliver these levels. Even though I know that you will take this as an attack, there really is no need to, because it isn't intended as an attack. This is just what I have observed.

NOANSWER

Author: alice
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 08:35 am

Hi pinolero, not to get off the subject or anything :-) but I wanted to tell you that it sounds like you are doing great with your new-found skill. Way to go!!

Author: Journeymna
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 10:17 am

I would also like to validate Pinolero. My points with Tommy are actually quite small, magnified in my view by other considerations that I have concerning emphasis and "down-the-road possibilities". I am quite certain that he can teach a person how to read a meter, and deliver auditing that will get a being ready to handle everything in his co-audit! VWD Pinolero, AND Tommy.

kgb

Author: Rudy
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 10:30 am

Tommy Thompson, et, al.

This is just a friendly heads-up! from a fellow (very active)player in the game. My intruder alert alarm is going off! I certainly understand your motivation for your first post to Shogun, I was a little pissed off myself. However,
I did not understand the tone or the subsequent posts to him and KGB. In my opinion, many of your responses, and your desire to respond so (apparently) reactive are beneath a being of your stature, experience, and value to this game.

The activity taking place in this forum on this matter is clearly Xenu's M.O. (mode of operation). My colleagues and I have experienced, perceived, and handled this type of thing many, many times as I am sure you have also. What I am afraid you might not be perceiving is the damage this activity is causing to the PR of your noble organization.
As a comrade I felt I should at least say something. You do with it whatever you will.

Thank-you for being here and remember, Xenu works best with those that deny his existance OR ability to affect them.

Power to you my friend...

Author: Speaking Up
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 11:21 am

TOMMY:

I am new here, so I don't know about any of your other posts, except for the one above.

From a new person's perspective, I was quite shocked at your reply. Yes, I know you have a choice to use force, but what effect are you trying to create. Did the end result justify the means. Instead of being impressed at your use of force, I was put off! I think it takes much more control to use self restraint than force. How could you have gotten your point across and made a friend of Shogun at the same time. Now that would be an interesting concept! Force doesn't cause anything except wanting to attack back and look at all the people attacking.

For your information, I left the COS because of their use of "Force", whether it be in hard sell, pressure, invalidation in the course room, shoulds, et al. No, this wasn't because I have a low confront, but because I have a high confront and just got sick of the whole thing. I felt that high ARC was not being used by enough of the people and found it to be quite uncomfortable to be around there. I feel that others that I related to felt the same as me, but always put up with it, because it is just the way it is!!!
And if you make a fuss, you could get written up and the whole thing could get turned around onto you, etc.-What are your overts, what did you do et al. Then you become an ethics problem. Amazing!

I could go on and on, but I think you got my point.

Try ARC first. If all else fails, there is always force and anger.

Author: pinolero
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 06:44 pm

Did'nt you know? The secret salute in the AOs is "may the force be with you" , "May the ARC be with you" is for wimps.

Author: searching
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 06:54 pm

shogun <----

Could you possibly take a bit more responsibility in all this? I questioned you on the reasoning behind your original post. You offered no further explanation beyond the possibility of eval and inval(This could apply to any and all communication.) However of all the responses given I would say yours was the only one containing such things - labelling a pc's actions as an aberration (eval) and assigning him a treason condition on it (inval based on eval). Can you see how this could be viewed as hypocritcal? I am aware that you've had extensive case handling but I would hope that your technical directions/advice does not derive from the technology that you yourself have received (This is not meant as an inval.) IF there was a problem wouldn't it've been better to ask the pc what's right about it. I make no claim to be technically trained or qualified in any way and state this along side this suggestion. If you are trained then I have missed your mentioning it in these discussions. Feel welcome to enlighten me on what training you've had and any written references to back up your opinion. If your statements were made based on some higher awareness level please do you best to clarify it. I don't think I'm the only one lacking a little understanding here.

And as for Tommy. I feel in no position to cast judgement in any way. I just wish I could say that the auditors I've had were as willing to step in the ring and take responsibility for me as this guy. On this point there might be a little charge so this is probably a good point to end off this post.

Author: Speaking Up
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 07:13 pm

PINOLERO

That was pretty funny!!! Glad you're doing so well and that you are taking this whole matter in gest.

Author: Speaking Up
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 07:16 pm

PINOLERO

That was pretty funny!!! Glad you're doing so well and that you are taking this whole matter in jest.

Author: 1 flew over
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 07:38 pm

The continued us of force and threats of force, as well as continuos heavy handedness has driven the Cof$ almost completely out of business. It has helped turn it from a very fast expanding movement to one of the areas people love to hate. Some of the original concepts of handling or control have grown into insanity within the church. Just because Hubbard used to go ballistic and scream at his students and staff does not mean that it was anything but case being dramatized. Yes! Hubbard had unhandled case! Most of us here can confront force and evil, there are a lot of us who just get tired of others flexing their egos or dramatizing their cases. I was considering doing courses at your org but I now question that consideration. I have numerous courses paid for at the local Cof$ but I wont do them for the same reason. Attacking evil is one thing, attacking anything which challenges your authority or agreements is quite something else.
Be Well

Author: 1 flew over
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 07:40 pm

My last post was for Tommy. I commend your intentions. I reject your methods.

Author: Eternity
Posted: Fri Aug 10 2001 08:00 pm

I just looked at one of Tommy's posts above. Why the hell does the church allow people to only know like 10% of the tech? Maybe it is overcomplicated and should be put in a more terse form.

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Sat Aug 11 2001 03:42 am

Hello Searching. You dont understand my post or the subsequent one? ... ok, as stated, space is a rough place... and it is my opinion that suggesting a PC look at something is not an activity anti the PC. Assigning him a treason condition? I asked a question...a question, with a question mark at the end of the sentence. I was asking, not stating as fact. Yes I can see how one could view it as hypocritical. I can also see how one could view it as evil or nasty or sexy or that of great and profound love...perhaps even as humor. Take your pick. I could say "hello" and have that construed as "making amends" or "needing bodies".... people are capable of all kinds of things. When a communication is sent, it is not always recieved as intended...in fact, rarely is it so, unless you are communicating with the living. Meat can give all kinds of answers. Some are very creative and funny!
Yes, I understand fully the importance of handling a PC well. I am sickened by any statement, followed by a direct confirmation, that an auditor has OWNERSHIP of ANYONE, let alone a PC. But what am I saying??? :-O I "dont have a right to any opinion". Uptone enough for you? Enough to audit anyone at all? Perhaps we differ in opinion. I grant you your beingness. I would not, and do not, state that my opinion is greater than yours...it's just mine. It's my creation, and people can invalidate it all they want....I'm a grown-up...BIG DEAL. I've had enough volts sent through me to light up L.A. for the whole summer. I've been smashed, cooked and eaten alive, imploded, you name it. My thought is that, concerning what occured before, if I cant handle comments from someone I havent seen communicate above Effort>>Punishing Bodies (-1.4), Controlling Bodies (-1.5), and Protecting Bodies (-2.2)<<, then I am in a heap of trouble the minute I leave my front door. I will not interfer with their game. It is not my kind of game, and I have no interest in it. Whatever they are creating is their creation, and I wont interfer with anyone's creations.
As stated, I also wished to root out some who I would consider very high-toned individuals. They came out. I ended cycle. Some dont want me to end cycle. When you are playing poker there comes a time to end the game. My cards are up and I'm cashing in my chips. I didn't want to answer you, as it may "appear" to a few Human Beings that I am indirectly communicating to others. Then more flows would come, then more typing with these fingers...no, more like corndogs! LOL. That's not a game I care to play. I chose to address YOU anyway, as I hope a number of us are adults here. As for my training, etc... I care not to justify my opinions with references. I was clearly understood by some. For the others, well, your opinions are your entitlement and I have no interest in claiming "you have no right to any opinion".
You know...communicating like one is walking on eggshells is not what I consider living. I see that occuring quite a bit on this board. Jesus sometimes spoke in parables. If he showed up here, I am quite confident that there would be those who tell him that they own this person over here, and he had better not dare communicate with him, or that he needed to demo things with mass, or that he really doesnt communicate well, or that he had better be in fear (!), and so on. Many listen, but only a few can truly hear. There are many games out there...choose the ones you wish to engage in, or, perhaps, create your own...or do nothing. I can tell you are an intelligent guy. You know what to do. :-)

pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
suicide remarks are torn
from the fool's gold mouthpiece
the hollow horn plays wasted words
proves to warn
that he not busy being born
is busy dying

from "It's Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding"
by Bob Dylan

Author: Pathfinder
Posted: Sat Aug 11 2001 09:18 am

Bob Dylan's words - +50 "agony". One notch below +45 "amusement".One notch above, +60 "inspiration".
Thanks, for posting his words

Author: adbhari
Posted: Sat Aug 11 2001 11:22 am

i thought
that the way forrests grow
is that you throw a fistfull
and the trees spring forth
it took a long time
for me to understand
that a forrest grows
a tree at a time

Author: searching
Posted: Sat Aug 11 2001 06:59 pm

I think I understand a lot of what you say. But could it not apply in reverse regarding Tommy's comment about HIS pc. Could this be a statement of responsibility rather than of ownership? I suppose only Tommy really knows what he meant. I personally find it hard to believe that you are taking him totally correctly. I'm also not sure Tommy had anything like bodies in mind but then I could be wrong.

You no-answered a lot of what I asked including the labelling of a particular activity of a pc an insanity and although you asked a question - I see no question mark - I don't see it as questioning IF treason applies but WHAT treason applies. In other words there IS a treason here, what is it? See below.

>>I congratulate you on your gains. I honestly do. I have >>questions you might (ONLY if you care to...) bring before >>session...
>>1> Do you care or have interest in handling the game or >>postulate that is ...."you need to share your track and >>your sessions with others".
>>2. what is your havingness problem or other thing >>concerning this.
>>3. How best can you as-is that particular insanity
>>4. What are your personal treason(s) related directly to >>this activity
>>5. see #3 again
>>6. Are you using any other apparatus besides a mk 5 meter >>on your processes? If so, WHY?

Please do not feel obliged to respond to this communication. It's more intended to leave you with something to think about. I only wanted to say I see no real clarification of the matter in your comm and that your reasoning seems flawed to me. This is just my opinion though and I will not generalize it onto all your communications on this board.

Author: Shogun:-
Posted: Sun Aug 12 2001 02:58 am

Howdy, Searching. I like the apparant fact (apparant just because I get no VGI's on it...my doingness, only...nothing to do with you) that you are genuinely interested in ending cycle on my com. Very good, indeed! I was wondering if you just wanted to stir up dirt. I dont think you do :-) You might look at this>>>"I have questions you might (only if you want to...)..."..Is that an enforcement in any way? How could I have been more gentle, without stroking his rear? What did I "no-answer" to you, specifically? I did label a "havingness problem" as an insanity. I define an Insanity as an activity that that no sanity attached to it. Does that work for you? Perhaps that is not your chosen definition. That's cool, if it isn't. Can you think of what havingness problems could be associated with dumping details about your case to strangers...including PC's? I sure can, but that's my space. We are all different. I see a compulsion going on...one that has no gain to his case...can you identify the contrary? Can one actually "as-is" an insanity? How?
Treason against oneself (and one's riddence of case/mass/insanities/etc...) can take many forms....can you name some treasons against oneself that could arise from publically announcing your case? What are they?
About the MK 5 meter...when auditor is extolling massive bank and low-toned com...and his OWNED PC is dumping his case, desparately in need of a pep ralley, I threw that one in to find out if the correct meter was being used, wondering if a beginning PC who has not cleared basic words was using the correct meter, and if the PC was in ownership of a meter (substitution of actually handling case...skipping a lot of steps). I got my answers. I was plesantly suprised to hear that the auditor (who should not be on that side of a meter under any circumstances in this point in time and space)is privey to what is up with the other meters. I shead a silent tear when I see a massively sick individual dramatizing his unwillingness to confront his bank by engaging in the compulsion of auditing others. I get ticked-off when I see a mistreated animal, or a beaten dog, or abused cat or a very fat mother with a 5 year old who is 50 lbs. overweight. You dig?
I care not to think about it, as mear thinking is an evil activity. I put ethics in, I put humanity in, and I spoke on a level that the best minds can understand. All the rest is low-level activity and bank...not my dance. If I wanted to talk to bank, I would have talked to the chick in the club I played at on Thursday night, who was flashing her boobs at the band...you understand what I mean? That was at least interesting.
I left a few things for you to answer, as I like folks who are smart (that means you) to come to their own truths...you dont need mine, as yours are possibly superior to mine in your space...besides, I might learn something from you. I probably will, and I thank you for that! :-)

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Sun Aug 12 2001 04:43 pm

There again...I may be wrong. Been wrong before :-)

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Sun Aug 12 2001 05:06 pm

I ain't lookin' to compete with you,
beat or cheat or mistreat you,
simplify you, classify you,
deny, defy or crucify you.
All I really want to do
is, baby, be friends with you.

No, and I ain't lookin' to fight with you,
frighten you or tighten you,
drag you down or drain you down,
chain you down or bring you down.
All I really want to do
is, baby, be friends with you.

I aint lookin' to block you up.
shock or knock or lock you up
analyze you, catagorize you,
finalize you or advertize you.
All I really want to do
is, baby be friends with you.

I dont want to fake you out,
take or shake or forsake you out,
I ain't lookin' for you to feel like me,
see like me or be like me.
All I really want to do
is, baby, be friends with you.

-Bob Dylan

Author: searching
Posted: Mon Aug 13 2001 12:00 am

I congratulate you on your comm. I honestly do. I have questions you might (ONLY if you care to...) bring before session...
1> Do you care or have interest in handling the game or postulate that is ...."you need to communicate with me".
2. what is your havingness problem or other thing concerning this.
3. How best can you as-is that particular insanity
4. What are your personal treason(s) related directly to this activity
5. see #3 again
6. Are you using any other apparatus besides a mk 5 meter on your processes? If so, WHY?

Just jokes! I'm sorry I felt COMPELLED to do it! Maybe that's something I'll have to handle in session one day. I'm sorry if my humour seems a little low toned. I hope to one day come close to the aesthetic creation of some here.

Yes Shogun I'll admit that your R-factor does take the edge off your comments but it still doesn't sit totally right in my 'space'. Still, if it's totally OK in your space who am I to say what's right and what's wrong.

The 'no-answer' remark was specifically refering to the lack of any additional reasoning supporting your original 'suggestions'.

I cannot see a compulsion necessarily in ANY pc wanting to share his/her wins but that doesn't mean one can't exist. Is this what you're refering to or something else? How would you differentiate between a desire to do so (followed by actualization) and a compulsion? Maybe that's what I need to clarify. Maybe that's what I don't see. Maybe it will become clearer as I go up a/the Bridge.

I personally don't see a problem with sharing a win. Taking into account who I would share it with of course. It seems to me like a very theta comm. Even if it only suggests that Yes! There is a way out of all this mess. Change IS possible! I do't know if this is sane but I can see this as having survival value for an individual. This is just my 'space'.

LRH says "The preclear is as well as he can originate a communication. That means he can stand at cause on the communication formula." I don't think arbitrary stops should be placed on the pc as to what he can communicate about. Sure, with a compulsion the pc wouldn't really be at cause but as I said before how do you determine compulsion?

Also are you aware of this definition of responsibilty:

The non-recognition and denial of the right of intervention between oneself and any being, idea, matter, energy, space, time or form and the assumption of full right of determination over it.

There maybe some overlap in this and the concept of ownership which could lead them to be confused. This may or may not be the case here. I'll leave it up to you.

Don't feel COMPELLED to answer this comm.

Was I compelled to answer yours! Who knows? Not me at this point in time. There's no real argument/contest here.

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Mon Aug 13 2001 02:21 am

Searching....beautiful. I am enjoying our communication. I see all that is involved in it. I like it. Sure there is a lil' "stuff" flying around it...but I get your interest. Nice.
"the preclear is as well as he can originate a communication". I saw it as originated not by him, but from bank. Thus, I treat it differently. Sharing a win is fine. To the point of almost describing each meal might, perhaps suggest something else at work.
I view things differently than some (not all). My good friend sat and talked with me (audited me in a different space...he is quite magical and enabled) for 5 1/2 years before I ever met Jeff. Then I went in and got to work. Serious work. Know why? My friend helped me get off all those insanities about putting things in the way of handling my case like a grown-up, as well as handling all the substitutions I could put in....before I ever got on the cans. I remeber buying a used, old copy of "Dianetics 55" (a good book!)...and my friend saying to me..."great purchase...but why did you buy that when you are only handling your case at grade 4?(at the time). He SAW what was going on. Yes it is a book that contains some great data. But why was I buying this book at that time in space? It was a STOP on my process, that's why. It was bank. Fartin' around, skipping processes and reading...no, looking at various (church) data is WASTE. That is not PRO-ME activity. So, I got it out of my space...gave it away. Years later, I bought another copy and read it.
Yes, nice words concerning responsiblity. I prefer this one>>> Respose-ability: the ability to respond. In my space, this definition of the word runs better on OT levels.
"I'll leave it up to you"..thanks for granting me my space, as well as making assertions (though there are a few here who find that activity a threat.....yeah, a threat to their bank...LOL) as to YOUR space. I like it! Shows good heart and (here goes!)..."grown-upmanship". *giggles*
My "R-factor". As I recall, isnt that what one does to a PC, in telling him what you are GOING to be doing at various steps in a process? That is futuring. All of my communication to him was present time, and did not represent statements of MY doingness.
(this is fun! Woohoo!)
I bet you CAN see a compulsion in a PC relating Case (not just wins). What are some? How can I differentiate between a desire and a compulsion? By the source of the communication. One is from organic source (theta) and the other is electrical (bank or other yucky source).
Your quote concerning survival value. I see your point, Searching. May I offer you an idea? Mine is that survival is actually not a high-toned activity. Things like persistences are attached to it...as well as (often, anyway) win/lose game agreements, and other not so pretty stuff. I prefer existence over survival anyday. I do take into account that Ron was trying to survive (and ultimately didnt very long) and, perhaps, didnt handle that area. Then the next two stand-in Rons came in, the american one and the swedish one.
Searching, I wish to ask you a few questions (I like your space). Care to answer them? Ok.....(thinking)...ok,
in the bible, in Corinthians 14, it says that women are forbidden to speak in church and that it is a shame to do so. Then it says this is God's law. Then it says if a woman has questions of a spiritual nature, she is to ask her husband at home...and if he is ignorant of such matters, so shall she be. You thoughts as to why this is God's law?
You have the chance to save thew life of a thief/crack addict OR a sweet, nice puppy. Which do you choose?
Can you give pecentages of how much bank/how much theta is communicating to you when you are talking to people? How do you recognize this?
Well, there you are...a few doozies! LOL I would appreciate hearing your answers, Searching. Your answers are as "valid" as anyone elses. Have fun! :-)

Author: victor sandino
Posted: Mon Aug 13 2001 03:40 pm

Reading shogun writing has been a fantastic voyage of selfdiscovery for me, first I finaly found that I am insane, thats was a life changing indication, I explained everithing, why I like rock metallica and other cryziness, then I come to find that I am a traitor, wow! that was utterly joyous discovery, I feel an enormous weigth lift out of my shoulders, and a little after I found that i am similar to a poor dog, tell me about OT cognitions, and now, the truth reaveled! I am speaking fron my bank! I must be an OT 8 aty least!

If it not were for his deft touch to writing the things in such a charming way I wuold think that he is an ignoranty and arrogant bastard who is soa snotty asshole that he has to look for somebody who is willing to stand his communication because I think even himself can not swallow it, fortunately, I found that he is doing it not because of simple stupidity, but "as a friend" and "only for my own good", thank you, brother, Looking at you and your display of OT wisdom had really give me something to look forward and an incentive to reach the OT states.

Too bad, that you went up the pole withpout knowing what on heaven was the magic that was apllyed to you, there is a weird concept called "pc participation" but, of course an instant OT decafeinated like you did not need that.

Also is interesting how you being so OT, so way up the bridge, and so invulnerable, invencible, and out of those low levelk games have to write using a pseudonim and not his own name, wich willbe, Blachthurne?

You of course, can answer if you want, but, why employ your unlimited powers from way up the bridge (or way up the pole), after all, this only my bank speaking.

Author: searching
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 12:21 am

shogun<----
Your viewpoint shows a certain total unreasonableness that I like. It obviously worked for you so I'll take it into considerationDOH!!
Unfortunately I must be the king of putting stops on case progress and I'm sure you would be thoroughly disgusted in me.

re: compulsion on dumping case
Sure, I've seen victims that seemed compelled to tell you all their problems. I've dumped my case around the place in one form or another on this basis as well. Sharing a win and dumping case though seem different to me(or at least not necessarily the same.)
re: survival
I think I've seen a few twists on this one around here - survive/create/exist. I haven't determined yet if one is better than another. I think if survive is taken as a gradient with infinite survival/immortality at the top and includes not just time but other factors like pleasure and stuff then maybe one could be as good as another. This is just a guess at this time.

re: the questions
The first one seems a bit cryptic but funnily enough has some parallels to my current sit. I'm not sure what the intention behind your question is but I would probably say it's God's law because who's going to fucking argue with God.
I'd have to go for the crack addict. I'm not sure what this says about me so I'll give my reasoning. I see a lot more potential worth in the addict. Sure it's going to take some time, energy and effort but it's going to have to be done at some stage even if it's next time round. And if he's not gettin' better he's only gettin' worse. Fix 'im up and he could be a hell of an asset.
On the theta/bank ratio I don't know percentages. I think the tone scale gives a good approximation of how much reactive mind is talking. Misemotion definitely speaks bank. And even inappropriate higher emotional tones and circuit stuff and non-sequiter stuff. I recall a reference saying that even the analytical mind is just a higher echelon of the reactive bank so even being analytical would then be bank. I suppose anything below know on the know-to-mystery scale could be considered bank. If you 'just know' then there's probably no need to communicate so on this basis any communication could be looked at as 100% bank. I don't know if this is where I was supposed to end up but that's my answer.

When do I get my results! I'm sooo nervous!

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 02:52 am

Searching, thank you for your reponse and answers to my questions. These are questions I am going over personally and enjoy your input...gives me things to think about. There is not right/wrong...I enjoy your space, thus I asked questions I am dealing with of you. Thank you. You gave me things to consider (cool!).
Victor, thanks for your input. Of course, I saw that you were being humorous at times, and biting in your sarcasm. That is fine with me...you gave me things to look at and things to consider. Thank you for your space, Victor! Please understand that sometimes emotions, sarcasm, inuendo, etc... doesnt always come off well when typing (at least for me, anyway). Thanks. :-)

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 03:02 am

By the way, I may "have" unlimited power, as everyone does, but because of my nutty postulates, ideas and creations, I alone have limited myself. I am not above others, We all are like balls of yarn...all wound-up differently...and thus, must be unwound differently. This is why I accept others space as best I can. I hope you will, too. Guys who have gone through OT levels still have daily life to deal with as any PC. Again, we all have our own junk. There are folks who are much lower on the bridge who have certain things more together than I do....and some higher who cant deal well with their enviroment. An idea is that let's all try to help each other do well in our respective spaces. That is my intent, as well as learning from people regardless of their station in life. :-)

Author: Rudy
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 07:08 am

shogun:-,

I have to admit, you are an interesting fellow. I didn't like my perception of you or your comments at first. However, through follow-up communication (a great effort on your part)I have gotten to 'know' you better and can appreciate where you are coming from.

I like your willingness to interact and learn from others. You are dispelling my original impression of arrogance nicely.

I appreciate you being here, not because you are more 'acceptable to me' now but because of your efforts to share and receive experience and info. You and others help me to look at different VPs, validate my own , and to grow because of both.

I am also a musician so I guess I have some extra 'R' with you.

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 04:15 pm

Rudy, thank you :-) I appreciate your wisedom....and your humor! If you knew me face to face, I dont think you would ever get an impression that I am arrogant. I truly am not...kinda silly and smiley and laughing a lot. It's funny, but there have been a few coments about me being arrogant, here. I think this is due to a poor translation to my keyboard. If you ask people in my life, they would most likely say, "oh, him...Mr. Giggles". I like to create harmony with people in person, and I try my best to get them up-tone when they are down a bit. Makes for more fun!
I take seriously the things you say. I am going to look at this, and remedy the appearence of arrogance thingy. Not my kind of impression I wish to give out...and very new and foreign to me. Rudy, thank you for being honest with me, it is very much appreciated :-)

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 04:20 pm

Oh...and Rudy, I have noticed quite a number of musicians into the tech. I have often wondered as to why this is...
Waddaya think? May I ask what instrument(s) you play?

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 04:25 pm

Searching, why on earth would you think I might be disgusted with you? LOL Nutty guy! :-) Hey, we all have ways of putting stops on handling our case....I've had a few doozies! I was very serious about doing the work...In SESSION. You dont want to know about some of the things that happened (well, that I created, sadly) when I didnt see Jeff for 6 months...not pretty LOL. I think you are cool.

Author: Rudy
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 07:40 pm

shogun:-,

I am a drummer. Unfortunately I haven't played in awhile. I really miss it. I had a problem with the druggie oriented environment (at least in MY experience)and chose to disconnect. Life sort of steered me away from practicing and playing on my own. I still have my 'chops' (although rusty) and do a lot of 'tapping'. I'll get back into it someday, right now I am consentrating on getting up the bridge!

What do y'all play and where?

Author: Rudy
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 10:00 pm

shogun:-,

"Oh...and Rudy, I have noticed quite a number of musicians into the tech. I have often wondered as to why this is...
Waddaya think?"

I forgot to answer this.

I think this is because we all have a strong sense of 'survival' having all started as 'starving artists'. Also, as artists, musicians tend to strive towards aesthetics. Since both survival and aesthetics are major areas which the tech handles, naturally, aware musicians will gravitate toward the tech. Unaware musicians will take drugs and die.

Author: Scipher
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 10:48 pm

"What do y'all play and where?"

I play the flute.

Where? At home on weekends

Author: Rudy
Posted: Tues Aug 14 2001 11:30 pm

Scipher,

that's cool, I love the flute.

Author: Eternity
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 01:17 am

Hopefully not the skin flute.

Author: Scipher
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 01:34 am

Hi Rudy. Thanks. I wonder how a drum and flute duo would sound? Oh yeah, the Japanese have done that ages ago.

Shogun, I've completely missed which instrument you play. Was it guitar? We could put a band together, perhaps something Jethro Tullish or Jazzy. Alice could sing

Eternity: nope, the sterling silver type.

Author: Scipher
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 01:36 am

Oh yeah, and VAST can play the ARC triangle. Ding-ding.

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 01:54 am

Scipher...I was patiently waiting for someone to step up to the plate and deliver that one....you did! Bravo! LOL Rudy...very cool! I hope you keep tapping and one day, if you feel it, start playing the drums again. I make a living playing the saxophone, as well as the flute and clarinet (at times). I make records, do T.V. shows and commercials, wealthy folks' weddings and corporate events. I used to live in New York and played mostly jazz there, but I was playing with heavies and starving, so I came back to L.A. I'm doing well, wish I was doing better (trying to create that space) and will record my first recording under my own name at the end of the year. I have played on lots of records and T.V. themes you have probably heard (and might wish to forget! LOL), yet only recently has the money been acceptable. Ah...the suffering of musicians. But I focus more on sales, and it is working better for me.
I dunno...I just think most creative musicians have this very open and cool space...I think most musicians are rather masterish with space. I also think we tend to have a bit of difficulty with "getting with the program" as far as society goes. I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on this (anyone, musician or not). What kinds of music do you listen to....and WHY? Please share (everyone)! :-)

Author: Scipher
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 02:29 am

Whoa.. Shogun that makes us colleagues! Actually I'm completely self taught and play for pleasure only so I'm not quite in the same league as you are. I am so happy you're making a recording under you own name this year. I would love to order a copy!

I gotta run and have lunch now. I'll come back with more on music later on.

Cheers!

BTW my CO plays the electric guitar, so we're not without a string section

Author: Rudy
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 08:08 am

shogun:-,

My brother is one of the top guitar and keyboard techs in the business. He also plays bass, guitar, keyboards, and SAXOPHONE. He has a small home studio and is building a commercial studio. Built Michael Jackson's studio, handles Lionel Richee's writing studio, tours all over the world AND is friends with Eric Clapton.

He lives in Santa Monica, maybe I could hook you up with him. He is a light druggie and NOT into the tech but is a great guy (at times). I am sure you could be a good influence on him.

Author: Rudy
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 08:18 am

Scipher,

Saw Jethro Tull in concert once. They were awesome. It is kind of funny because those were my druggie days before Scientology and I remember when we sat down we found a bundle of about 20 joints on the floor in a rubberband. We were very happy and consequently very stoned.
I am sure glad those days are over!

I do like the flute, drums, and ARC triangle combo. Actually
VAST is a very hot guitar player also.

Author: Scipher
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 09:48 am

HmmÖ reminds me of how I went to see the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I remember walking into the stadium. I remember the first three songs with increasing vagueness and then I remember playing pool in a pub about four hours later. Whatever happened in-between must have been A LOT of fun.

Author: Rudy
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 09:58 am

Or not?

Author: Scipher
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 10:12 am

How should I know - I wasn't there when it happened!

Or was I? Hmmm....

Yes, your right, it's good those days are over

Author: Pathfinder
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 10:15 am

I like gentleness. I'll listen.

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 02:54 pm

Scipher, very cool! Because I play for a living, you arent in my league? I tend to think otherwise. Creating music without money, labor, business and pleasing people is higher-toned activity to me...so, I guess I am not in YOUR league. So there! LOL Very cool, Rudy :-)
Pathfinder, I know where you are coming from. I try to be a Peaceful Warrior.

Author: Scipher
Posted: Wed Aug 15 2001 10:46 pm

Hello again Shogun! Thanks for you validation. I am having a very busy week with a lot of cycles. Thankfully I can see how the little bit of theory and TRs I have done so far are helping me cope and get things done, but nevertheless I have very little time to write this week, so forgive me if my responses are short or simply missing.

I know what you mean about music being a higher-toned activity. The mind is free of words when you play and the exhilaration and flight of creativity can leave you feeling cleansed and lightÖ or does that have to do with breathing deeply for hours at a time when playing and ëaerodynamic' instrument like the flute or sax? Nah, just joking - you can get the same ëlift' from any instrument, even with computer music

An interesting aspect of music is how it can take you up and down the tone scale with pinpoint accuracy. Perhaps it helps create a different reality, a new space within the old one, and then the being adapts to this new ësurrounding' resulting in an appropriate change in his state? Luckily, unlike some other things, we can choose our own music.

Author: alice
Posted: Thur Aug 16 2001 06:29 pm

I dance the Dance of Life. What is that heavenly music in my head that compels my feet?

hey man, pass me another beer, will ya...

Author: Eternity
Posted: Thur Aug 16 2001 10:38 pm

If anybody here likes the skin flute, they should contact Zamphir's (Pronounced Zamfir) institute. Zamphir is a master of the skin flute and will help anyone interested in becoming proficient at fellatio.

Author: Scipher
Posted: Thur Aug 16 2001 10:44 pm

Here's your beer Alice

!

Rudy, Shogun,
Speaking of coincidences, there was a Jethro Tull special on the radio last night. Honestly I only own one Jethro album, which is Songs from the Woods. I bought it because I was constantly asked "Hey, you play the flute, you must like Jethro Tull?" and I was like "Who?". Anyway, what are the other good Jethro albums I should own? Also who's Roland Kirk? What's a good Roland Kirk album to get? Shogun, you probably know this. Thanks!

Author: VAST
Posted: Thur Aug 16 2001 10:52 pm

Hi Scipher. I enjoyed "Aqualung" from Jethro Tull. When it came out in the 70's it took the "Rock World" and turned it on it's proverbial ear. With heavy guitar riffs, melodic flute runs, and diverse lyrics it brought Jethro Tull fame and fan recognition. It was also a biting satire on "organized religion" and it's profound failures to provide true spiritual freedom to it's many worldwide followers. I wonder what would have happened if they were introduced to Clearing Technology at that time, as it was obvious they deemed the Church of England a failure. Hmmmm?

Author: Scipher
Posted: Thur Aug 16 2001 11:52 pm

Hi VAST!

Thanks for you answer, I will get that album. My favourite music at the moment is the French band Air. I heard that they are considered by some to be the new Pink Floyd. What's a good Pink Floyd album, apart from The Wall? My other all time favourites would have to be Diamanda Galas, David Bowie, early pre-popularity Cardigans, Lenny Kravitz, and uhmm.. well and many many others. On the classical side I would go for Schubert, Bach and Fuare, especially his Pavane, which is my favourite piece of them all (well, together with Schubert's Op.100 trio for piano, cello and violin, and Delibe's flower duet from Lakme). And many many others...

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 01:46 am

Wow....talk about a thread suddenly going way uptone. Or is that uptown? *giggles* TERRIFIC posts by all.....amazing where activity can take one :-)
Rhassan Roland Kirk started the humming in the flute thing, as well as playing 3 saxophones at once...amazing stuff >>>for jazz, it's "We Free Kings" or "Domino". Later, it's "Volunteer Slavery" for a more late 60's love, hate and peace deal.
Dearest Alice, at the big dance event on this planet, I only waltz with the few living ones, and smile and wink at the others :-)

Author: shogun:-
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 01:48 am

Alice, I hope you share more of your writings/poems with us when you feel it. :-)

Author: Rudy
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 06:18 am

Scipher,

I agree with that VAST guy, 'Aqualung' is awesome. However, you have not heard Jethro Tull until you have listened to
'Thick as a Brick' and 'Passion Play'. They were considered the first of a format which told a story CONTINUOUSLY from start to finish of the album. In other words there were no individual songs but one long rock 'sympathy' that constantly changed tempo and melody.

These are great Tull classics. They probably have some British philosophical anti status-quo significance but I don't remember, I was on drugs in those days.....

Author: Scipher
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 06:47 am

Wow, I'll get those too!

Author: VAST
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 07:14 am

Good morning Scipher. I particularly enjoy and admire Emerson, Lake, and Palmer too. Their Brain Salad Surgery album was a masterpiece of modern keyboard composition and equal display of virtuosity. The song "Karn Evil 9", has very interesting lyrics and message. When I first heard it years ago, I realized it was about (to me, anyway), a group of beings in another dimension who hear a cry for help from another dimension and join together to move there to ignite the fires of hope within them through the power of aesthetics. The first part has a "whole track" feel to it, the second a sort of wierd present time feel, and the third a future sense to it. By bringing concepts of past, present, and future together to one composition in a story/music line I cognited these guys were no mere normal musicians, but visionaries themselves. They had assistance from a guy named Sinfield with the lyrics on some of their songs, this one included. Also, on their "Trilogy" album/tape/cd there sits some very beautiful and moving pieces of music as well. The song "From the beginning" is quite prophetic and "Abadonn's Bolero" has always reminded me of a whistling space opera army marching through the streets of a conquored land. All in all, they are artists who paint the universal landscape with aesthetic mastery of music knowingness and adept display of competence. And RUDY, check out the percussion skills of Carl Palmer, a real master of his craft! A line from ("From the beginning"), You see it's all CLEAR. You were meant to be here. From the beginning.........

Author: Scipher
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 07:34 am

Wow, I'll have to print this page out. Take it with me like a shopping list. Thanks for your suggestions guys! I now have this wonderful feeling of anticipation. Every once in a while, when you've listened to all you can and are hungry for something new, nothing interesting comes along. It's a period of musical stagnation. I think you've just helped me out of mine.

Author: alice
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 07:53 am

Hi shogun. Sometimes, there is just nothing to say... :-)
Can I have this dance? ;-)

Author: Rudy
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 11:50 am

"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends,
I hope you tag along, come inside, come inside...."

Emerson Lake and Palmer

Author: Journeyman
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 04:28 pm

"...there you go man,
keep as cool as you can
face piles of trials with smiles
it riles them to believe that you perceive
the webs they weave
keep on thinking free..."

Moody Blues, "Lovely to see you again, My Friend", 1967

(If there ever was a band of whole track bards, this was them)

kgb

Author: elpguy
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 05:21 pm

Hi Vast- I'm mostly a lurker (an active one though) and you hit the nail on the head about Emerson, Lake and Palmer. I first heard them at 14 years old (Hoedown and KE9) and it was like...OH WOW what the hell is this??? And I've been a huge fan ever since. I have no idea how they come up with the "whole track" sounds. Listen to "Mars, Bringer of War" and it'll make goose-bumps stand up on your arms! Of couse, maybe I was at that particular space-war or something similar. I also use the music sharing services (Winmx and Audiogalaxy) and there's a whole genre of music called "Progressive". It may be Prog Rock or Prog Metal, but there are some very talented bands out there making good music with substance in the songs.

Anyway, its all QUITE interesting how you look at your life and interests and you find yourself being aware of things like ELP and Scientology and playing the game of trying to handle yourself as a being. Whatever anyone says, Scientologists (in or out of COS) are interesting beings.

Author: John
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 05:26 pm

When I walk in, turn up the volume on my stereo, plug in my guitar, and play along with, "Time is the Enemy," I think of this:

http://www.adrianlegg.com
http://www.frankgambale.com
http://www.stevemorse.com
http://www.ericjohnson.com
http://www.hitsquick.com/music/Artist/Lane,Shawn
http://members.aol.com/Hokey40/ShredGuitarists.html

Then, I play "Temporal Analogues of Paradise," sometimes on drums, sometimes on guitar; I play these albums. No one way of doing things can make a person, I remember that as I record my demos, hoping to get done before Christmas.

Author: Journeyman
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 05:33 pm

Best Way to Travel- Moody Blues

And you can fly
High as a kite if you want to
Faster than light if you want to
Speeding through the universe
Thinking is the best way to travel

It's all a dream
Light passing by on the screen
And there's you and I on the beam
Speeding through the universe
Thinking is the best way to travel

We ride the waves
Distance is gone, will we find out?
How life began, will we find out?
Speeding through the universe
Thinking is the best way to travel

And you can fly
High as a kite if you want to
Faster than light if you want to
Speeding through the universe
Thinking is the best way to travel

Author: Pathfinder
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 06:39 pm

Since I can't applause here, I thought that I would write this:
Christmas 1917 Yes it is Christmas time and that special feeling has fallen over everyone. The German soldiers and the french soldiers lay down their weapons and call a truce, yes it is Christmas time They meet each other in a neutral zone and exchange small gifts a loaf of bread a bottle of wine a candy bar They talk about their dreams and their loved ones they wish each other well yes it is Christmas time

Author: joman
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 09:07 pm

And no-one is ot yet. A dream if you will, an idea, a fake goal, a manufactured reality. Not bad, just not real, and what is real? Music my man!

Author: yotomigo
Posted: Fri Aug 17 2001 09:28 pm

Noone ever really believes in the state of OT until they are OT. That's OK. Can you believe that you could in some way be better than what you are now? That is all it takes to get started.

Author: shogun
Posted: Sat Aug 18 2001 02:04 am

Alice, very wise, indeed! *taking your hand, swinging you around......*dip* :-) Anyone fans of the group Yes? Now that is what I call lyrics! ...early Elton John/Bernie Taupin? "Take Me To The Pilot"...wow.

Author: John
Posted: Sat Aug 18 2001 11:18 am

Pathfinder,

Excellent post my friend.

Author: adbhari
Posted: Fri Aug 24 2001 12:23 am

It seems like this planet is kinda 'heavy' as far as spiritual evolution goes. LRH had his go, but the thing turned into a not so nice thing. With Co$ and stuff.

But if someone came with perfect tech, at perfect time, in a perfect place, on a perfect gradient etc. Perfect in all respects that is, and across all dynamics. Then maybe, just maybe it would work and the boom would clear the planet clean. And redirect the train back onto the right tracks again. It would have to be prepared in advance of course, say some hudred or thousand years, and the 'tech' would have to be distributed beforehand as well. Before the 'event' that is. But if something like that was planned for the planet, it seems like it went awry. For other than Hubbard's own tech there seem few others available. The rest just seems to have gotten lost along the line somewhere...

Author: Rudy
Posted: Fri Aug 24 2001 06:29 am

"Then maybe, just maybe it would work and the boom would clear the planet clean. And redirect the train back onto the right tracks again..."

Actually the train has become a rocket ship and if you do not look in the right place you'll miss it. What a RIDE!

Author: Pathfinder
Posted: Fri Aug 24 2001 11:25 pm

adbhari > Thank you.
Pathfinder.

Author: Pathfinder
Posted: Fri Aug 24 2001 11:53 pm

John > a delayed response that you didn't deserve, thank you.
And to the other guys, the criticism is OK. How are you going to go from pc to pre-OT to OT if your not learning along the way? Your ability to go full circle improves as you go along the way.
Pathfinder.

Author: shogun
Posted: Sat Aug 25 2001 01:10 am

Pathfinder, well put, buddy. Ya know, I am seing a lot of engaging in silly, bank-sourced games on this board by some....who then take a breather, and write some very enlightening words that I print and read and read. I wish these individuals wouldn't engage in these low-toned games that serve them well in no way, and continue to write their high-toned words that inspire others and that I learn from. Call me selfish....LOL :-)

Author: pinolero
Posted: Sat Sep 29 2001 05:38 pm

Aqui gente, estoy colocando esto para que puedan orientarse en el forum. Como estan las cosas en nicaragua?