I Question
Author: John
Posted: Sun Nov 26 2000 08:51 pm
In case you were wondering, I'm back. I've been watching you for a long time now. It's been pretty dry so I figured I'd come back and liven things up. My first respectable topic will be that of questioning. In case you haven't noticed, I take everything with a grain of salt (and considering what I've been through that doesn't shock me.) Why do people here continue to look for answers in Scientology. I think it's fair to say that Scientology has lots of empty promises and hilarious ideas. In my case Scientology was an escape from reality. Considering just how boring it is in this universe I'm not surprised at that either. So life is enigmatic and dull, so what? Instead of trying to find a suitable definition to make yourself sleep better at night, maybe that enigma should be looked at for what it truly is: an unsolvable paradox. Here's one for you... The big bang occured and all events were set into motion and determined at that event. Yet, we have the illusion of choice, an illusion created by the mind. If everything was determined at the point of creation then why does it seem that everything is random. There are so many theories in science that one could literally "blow their mind" trying to figure this out. Anyway, what I'm trying to figure out is: why after having been disturbed or "entheta struck" by CofS do you continue to try this salvage operation. Ron is dead. Good bye! And don't come back! Yet you claim, and in your own words "Maybe Ron is Still Alive!" please
Reincarnation, astral bodies, tarot cards, genies... it just keeps on spiraling back into the dark ages. So you're searching to better your lives, you find valuable data in "tech" (and I use the term tech very loosly) and you've had halucinatory experiences to back up your ideas based Scientology. So what? Are you out of your body now? Can you read others minds? Do you have super theta powers? no
Why?
why why why why why!!!!!
Ultimately I would think it is because you search for the meaning of life.
Author: Bud
Posted: Mon Nov 27 2000 12:29 pm
So you found it boring without yourself!
Author: Grailer
Posted: Mon Nov 27 2000 07:31 pm
The big bang might be a problem for Scientology or Budhism IF there were only one. Why would there be terms like KALPA and JI, which represent
one big bang from start to finish. The spans and interconnections of the buddha fields are represented as occuring over countless, numberless
aeons, kalpas and ji's. Are there awareness of awareness units out there that big? Scientology, to be realistic about it, is kind of local, home town type thing!
The illusion of choise, presented within the context of the (only one) MEST Universe, by the illusion of the mind is just simply just that: an illusion. Where is the problem here? You yourself are NOT an illusion, you know the Bahavagita thing where Arjuna is talking with Kirishna who is telling him what the score is, that he as a Thetan, Yuan Chen, Spirit, Soul, whatever, is...not wetted by water, burnt by fire, not hurt, not damaged, cannot be destroyed, etc. etc. well thats so! In fact we have an endless eternity to get this all figured out. But of course there is some preasure if you want to get it all figured out in one great and fortunate human rebirth. It could be a little harder to do as say a rabbit in South Dacota. We are free though to make such choices. No problem there.
As to why keep salvaging this operation. Well fact of the matter we are having fun here. One of our missions is to salvage and handle beings and their creations. If you know of a better way to have fun than this, I would like to know about it. It could just a question of direction whether one spirals into Light of Darkness.
The Austrailians think Austraila is on top.
It is the case if I just 'figure figure' enough I will blow my mind, but where is the loss here. I can only blow into knowingness, certainty and bliss. The problem here is that "figure figure'
takes too long, that all. So if we admit there are others and that they have legitimate concerns etc. we may be able to cut the lead time.
Let us suppose that all of us could:
"In all the various lores, great, small and intermediate, let it come that (we) I be able to obtain mastery merely upon hearing, reflecting and seeing." Padma Sambhava
Answering some questions, straightening out some subject etc. well it would not look so hard under good conditions, would it.
Author: John
Posted: Mon Nov 27 2000 08:35 pm
The background radiation current within this one universe is evidence of THE big bang. I agree, there may only be an eternity of multiple universal phenomenon which are ceasless. However, that soul, spirit, bieng... conscious mind, is just as vulnerable to attack as the physical body. Take Bud(please), obviously degraded. The human mind or any other mind is interconnected with the environment it perceives, which is why modern physics does not sanctify the observer, but the participant. If we are in a trap (life) and the only way out is through salvation to the afterlife (the true definition of life which is not illusion) then this would take an act of God. I did not create myself, I control my destiny only within the limits of my own mind, and according to modern science (and obvious to anyone) that mind is finite; as is our universe.
Author: John
Posted: Tues Nov 28 2000 10:27 am
Let me clarify my position. It is my firm belief that the interpretation of a statement (whether fact or fiction) is just that, an interpretation. I know that many people hold onto beliefs and fixed ideas, and I respect them. That doesn't necessarily mean I believe them, or agree with them. When I posted THE MEANING OF LIFE, it was to demonstrate how I view something which is self evident. You're born, you grow, then your cells break down until you die. It isn't an attempt to "get under your skin." I was simply saying what is already self evident. It's obvious that we are born, live, and then die. And there is that nasty word: die. So we die, so what? It is part of our existence and defines our life. Growing old is more than just degradation, it's a stroll toward the unknown. No one has ever died and then come back to life. Scientology avoids this uncertainty by saying: Have you lived before this life? What they're really saying is: If you pay us enough we'll audit you into believing that you have lived before this life. Dealing with repressed memory is a tricky business, and the human mind is rarely on target when dealing with accuracy of experience. I embrace this limitation, and every other limitation offered up to me by my physical being. It is part of what; and indeed, who I am. Many would jump at the chance to gain godlike powers, but those kinds of powers require enourmous amounts of responsibility. Maybe pushing a pencil with your mind or sensing slight impressions are all we're capable of. Those kinds of powers and abilities do strike the fancy of many, but my ultimate goals are things like: Inner peace, Love, and Direction, Purpose. I would not trade those things for all the psychic powers of the world. My personal view is my own, and it is the only thing I truly have. If I were to give that up I would be sacrificing my own conscious mind. Barriers are good, especially when they keep the bad things out. Leave the fears and evils of the cosmos to the powers that be, charish your small existence. And who knows, maybe death is just a transition to something much greater. You'll never know until you find out.
Author: Vector
Posted: Tues May 01 2001 02:06 am
What happened to John.
without his pearls of wisdom this place has become a house of beatniks
Author: John
Posted: Tues May 01 2001 04:21 am
I'm right here Vector, I never left you.
Nor will I ever leave you, unless I have nothing left to share, or to learn.
Author: noteasilyfooled
Posted: Tues May 01 2001 08:35 am
I`m gonna continue doing drills and auditing out my case. This kind of pseudo-philosophical talk is a waste of time because it leads nowhere.
Author: John
Posted: Tues May 01 2001 08:42 am
OK, well here's a little nugget for you. You can't attain enlightenment. Attainment is havingness and havingness is not enlightenment. Enlightenment is experienced, not acheived. Happy drilling: )
Author: thanatea
Posted: Tues May 01 2001 10:05 am
2 no-tea-silly-fool:
don't audit out your case, there might be nothing left of you.
Thanatea, the Holy Asp
Author: walker
Posted: Tues May 01 2001 10:33 am
enlightenment is a state of mind.
what state of mind would you like to be in?
the difference between you and "state of mind" can be measured in infinity - which is of course, the general idea of it all...
noteasilyfooled: you are headed in the right direction.
Author: Balboa
Posted: Wed May 02 2001 04:03 am
I thought enlightenment was the return to native state?
Adrian!
Author: walker
Posted: Wed May 02 2001 05:33 am
good question.
a state of existence is just that.
a cleared cannabal believes enlightenment comes from eating the flesh of another and when that enlightenment comes, it will enable him to rule over everyone else.
the same goes for Joe-Americana, Euro-Bill and the rest of the rat pack.
the 'cleared cannabil' term is an apt description. take it further.
Author: Nash
Posted: Wed May 02 2001 07:37 am
Well, it would have to be a state of existence. A state of non-existence would be undesirable, unless you are really tired. Enlightenment to me is not power over others or power over my environment. Now if scientology could produce an OT who can make a plate of food appear, or a house, or an island to put it on, I would still be a scientologist. You could say that when one gains knowledge, they become enlightened, whatever that knowledge may be. So you can reach enlightenment over and over again. It's like going exterior, you just do it over and over, there is no real "blowout" per say. It's just something that happens, but you don't really attain it. It's more like it happens to you. Every time I have gone exterior, it just seemed to occur. OT is a pretty nice feeling, but I would rate it as being about a 1 on a scale from 1-1000 concerning what is really "out there."
Author: mike
Posted: Wed May 02 2001 08:21 pm
noteasilyfooled,
Congrats on continuing to improve yourself. Well done!
Mike
mike@fza.org
Author: walker
Posted: Thur May 03 2001 05:50 am
all 'states' are experiential. take it further.
your description of knowledge jives quite nicely with the cannabil ideology.
ot is a nice experential feeling. if you rate it as a '1', then my question would be - what is your idea of a '1000'? What have you imagined for yourself?
on another note, i found this quote and thought it to be interesting:
"The truth need not be veiled, for it veils itself from the eyes of the ignorant." Hazrat Inayat Khan
Author: rockslam
Posted: Thur May 03 2001 12:52 pm
hmm... I couldn't understand that quote. Could you alter it for me so that I can misrepresent it to others? Oops, sliding into my David Miscavige valence... sorry.
kgb
rockslam@hotmail.com
Author: John
Posted: Thur May 03 2001 03:19 pm
Your quote goes along with my 1000.
Ultimate truth is what I'm talking about, and as Mr. Spock said to Dr. McCoy: "It would be impossible for me to discuss the matter without a common frame of reference."
In other words, if you haven't been there, then there is no even ground for me to discuss it. Reason? Simply because it goes beyond words, and this is why many philosophers speak in parables. The Hindu religion is a good example, each God or Goddess is a state of matter, energy, spiritual life, and devine will. It helps to use characters and tell stories about these concepts. They are just so simple (yet so powerful) that all you can do is point to it. Love is the most powerful, and simplest concept.
Which brings me back to the cannibal discussion. I was on the phone with Mike Goldstein back when I was considering taking an Idenics course, and he said something interesting that caught my ear. "Scientologists are so big on cause, they want to have total cause over the universe, so they can overcome it. But here's the thing; if you are at total cause over the universe, then where does that leave everyone else? They are under your feet on the effect side, and that isn't desireable. And sometimes (about 50% of the time) it's nice to be at effect, like when you listen to music." Me being a musician got the message loud and clear.
Author: VAST
Posted: Thur May 03 2001 03:48 pm
Hi John. For me, being OT enables one to be able to experience the viewpoint of both cause and effect. It is a decision. It is freedom from being the effect of something that one wants to be free from. Perhaps some of these effects were enforced on oneself,i.e., implanting by various means. I don't see many OT's having the intention of going up the bridge to just have others under their feet. The highest purpose in the universe is the creation of effect(axiom 10). I believe the second highest purpose is to experience that effect that one creates. Some of those who are in the CofS intend ill will towards those who seek freedom outside their organization. Perhaps those individuals intend to have others under their feet. There seems to be a lot of charge between the CofS and the freezone. They may find themselves experiencing that which they created. I do not intend ill will or harm to those who seek freedom, wherever they may be. There are many in the CofS who are essentially trapped there. They have been misled and betrayed by those who seek dominance over them. I believe that their original intent was to acheive enlightenment and greater understanding. Basically, an understanding of this most unusual and interesting game we call life.
Author: John
Posted: Thur May 03 2001 04:12 pm
I agree, the OT state is to give a person more freedom over cause and effect, but if you had total freedom over this you would again be at total cause. The problem with CofS is that they just can't accept that there are some things which are out of their control. Even LRH regognized that there is only freedom within parameters. I think that most people who are in the church have a real interest in finding the greener grass, but they will slug you down to defend their own determination. Jesus said: "If a man strikes you on the cheek, offer him the other." This goes to show just how far above mest he is.
Author: Pharoh
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 04:34 am
We're in the pipe, 5 by 5.
Author: rockslam
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 07:28 am
haffirmative
Author: Hudson
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 08:23 am
How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?
Author: Apone
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 08:25 am
You secure that shit Hudson!
Author: rockslam
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 08:26 am
shit, man, why don't you put her in charge!
Author: Dumbledore
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 10:56 am
They can bill me.
Author: Hicks
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 02:48 pm
Say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Pharoh do you copy?
Author: xenia
Posted: Fri May 04 2001 05:41 pm
we come back
Xenia, the BT Princess
Author: 8472
Posted: Sat May 05 2001 08:25 pm
In fluidic space, if you pass wind everyone will know.
We hate nano-probes!
Species 8472
Author: Vector
Posted: Mon May 07 2001 10:20 am
I forget why are those kick ass aliens in Star Trek refered to as species (8472)?
Author: John
Posted: Mon May 07 2001 10:41 am
The Borg designate every species by number in the order they encounter them.
Author: Vector
Posted: Mon May 07 2001 05:54 pm
Oh I see,
Sorry my star Trek knowledge isn't what it used to be.
Always liked the show though.
Author: John
Posted: Tues May 08 2001 04:15 pm
Picard: Number 1, you have the bridge!
I have to go to the toilet and expell Number 2.
Austin Powers: Who does Number 2 work for?
Cowboy: That's right buddy you show that turd who's boss!
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