Bondage
Author: flowrite
Posted: Tues Jan 16 2001 10:42 am
Scientology is supposed to help you handle life and make you more at cause. Unfortunately it has not helped me much in regards to dealing with other people. I came into it as a very sensitive person and I can only say it made me more sensitive. I became acutely sensitive to breaks in the comm cycle particularly interruptions. With fellow Scios I felt relaxed but with most others particularly in the workplace I am not. Others wrong judgements of me are the worse. How do you handle them? If I feel tempted to be assertive I'm hit with all sorts of doubts and fears. The self talk goes something like this: "What will they think of me?" "I can't handle it" "I don't know what to say" "I might be wrong" "They might be right" "If I say anything it could blow up into a bad scene". All this amounts to nothing less than psychological bondage; it is so frustrating and vexing. I go away from an unpleasant encounter thinking what I should have said and plan for the next time, but the next time is always different. Don't misunderstand me I have always been like this only since being in Scientology, its got worse. Occasionally I will squeak up but most of the time I pretend I am not effect. I am really tied down with this problem with others.
How do you handle being discounted in a conversation, or smugness or aloofness or cockyness or snobbishness or power struggles or interruptions, to mention just a few of the hackle rising mannerisms that other people can produce?
flowrite
Author: misiunas
Posted: Tues Jan 16 2001 12:14 pm
flowrite, thanks for writing about this sensitive issue. I think that the problem only APPEARS to be worse since your dealings with the subject called 'Scientology'. Your awareness of the problem has skyrocketed, and that, of course, makes you want to DO something about it. Good going!!
If you look around you, you can probably pick out all sorts of examples where people become affected by what happens around them, and in many of those instances they are totally clueless as to what is going on. You, on the other hand, are not clueless. This action won't resolve your problem, but it may help to locate you a bit better, to know that yes - you ARE aware (believe me, THAT is a good thing!).
Being assertive, is an attempt to overwhelm others with your own point of view. You know the saying, you can fool some of the people... Part of learning the TRs is gaining the ability to confront, but I like the term 'just being there' much better. Can you 'just be there' in a conversation without having to create an effect? Can you 'just be there' without becoming the effect of the conversation.
Knowing the comm cycle is a great step toward gaining the ability to UNDERSTAND the comm cycle. Part of that cycle is 'just being there'. That happens on both the cause and the effect aspect of it.
What do you think of this?
Paul
Author: flowrite
Posted: Wed Jan 17 2001 12:01 pm
paul
I don't entirely agree with you about my enhanced awareness. I see awareness as relative to where you are, on the effect scale for example. If I am effect then I am not that aware as my attention is fixed on self. I am however aware of my experience, but my experience is determined by where I am on the effect scale. To illustrate. A fearful person or shy or withdrawn can attract the very things they he/she is afraid of and at school or in the workplace is a real target for bullies. Whereas a leader type who may be slightly aggressive but certainly bold will get respect and agreement simply by their manner and presence and indeed they have to be very wrong to get disagreement. So there is an effect scale and at each point on the scale there are general beliefs about life which attract a certain experience.
Also it seems to me that you are confusing assertiveness with aggressiveness. Speaking up for yourself or your beliefs would be an assertive action, whereas aggressiveness would be attempting to relay these things with force.
Being there is of course important but if a person gets hit either physically or psychologically, why should he/she just take it? The truth is that if the person was really being there then that person would be at the top of the effect scale and what is experienced would be different,it might not be all calm and beautiful, but the game would be different for the person could well be a leader with responsibility.
flowrite
Author: flowrite
Posted: Wed Jan 17 2001 12:48 pm
I've seen a number of Scientologists myself included on the receiving end of some spiteful H E&R and just do nothing about it, not because they were unaffected but because they were stunned into silence. Being in a safe enviroment and then suddenly getting an unpleasant taste of the real world can be quite a wake up call to your state of case.
flowrite
Author: Paul Matulef
Posted: Wed Jan 17 2001 01:39 pm
Flowright,
You just pointed out a serious weakness of the "tech" as applied in the church.
Instead of building up ones ability to handle
the environment, and bounce back from restimulation, one is lead to "ignore" many aspects of life by seperating from them. Often in the "hope" that somewhere later on the bridge one will be better.
I can see that by cloistering oneself in a "safe" church environment, dedicating all ones time to earning money, staff service, and courses, one has little time to experience and gain mastery over the life they may have wanted before getting swamped by Scientology goals.
One might stay less stimulated, but then one is not really gaining the ability to be at cause.
I have found that by balancing processing with real life activities, both can be integrated with
lasting benefit.
Author: misiunas
Posted: Wed Jan 17 2001 04:07 pm
Now there's the key: "balancing processing with real life activities". That balancing leads to understanding, and with understanding life takes on new meaning.
Good point.
flowrite, thanks for clarifing your position.
Paul
(the other one)
Author: complexio
Posted: Wed Jan 17 2001 08:58 pm
I used to teach assertiveness training but what I
have found was missing was the reality that there is a game being played and it's often a very low toned useless game. The players aren't even aware they are playing a game. From a very young age I realized I lacked interest in and felt above the
games of everyday life. I know there are others who feel the same way. So here we are,trying to understand the meaning of the games and why others
are playing them. I empathisize with Flowright's postion entirely. However, I don't think the real problem is in learning how to play the game but how to understand,handle it and stay above it. I
genuinely feel pity for insanely aggresive people who play games of domination and control throughout their lives. In the end we all lose at games like these even the poor soul who thinks he
has won. So stay above the game. Be aware it is a game. You are more than the game.
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Thur Jan 18 2001 03:55 am
Flowrite--
What's H E&R?
Author: flowrite
Posted: Thur Jan 18 2001 11:05 am
Anonymous if you have a Scn background you should have come across this bit of jargon.
H E and R or HER stands for human emotion and reaction. I never use the abbreviation normally but I hope it is understood by most on this forum.
The word assertiveness seems to bring up some negative connotations on this forum, could this be that some are refusing to confront others? Perhaps I should consult my thesaurus and find another word for being strong open and forthright.
A Scio who has lived and worked with church staff members for some time may well find it hard to reorientate themselves to the push and shove of outside life, I have observed this. But only the ones who are passive, nervous, and withdrawn will experience and perceive a lot of unpleasantness from other people. This is because wherever you are on the effect scale will determine your experience, and this is because that on any point on the scale you have a certain set of beliefs that are working for or against you.
flowrite
Author: Vector
Posted: Thur Jan 18 2001 11:20 am
Right on FLowright!
I also have seen this. even in myself at times
im no longer a staff member but value the insights about my own beingness that i came to realize as a result. the problem is that it is such a secular and isolated world within the church, and i hate to say it but i often see people who are totally blinded by the tech which is so stupidly ironic since the opposite is the chief objective of scientology.
Author: Vector
Posted: Thur Jan 18 2001 11:29 am
"Balancing processing with real life activities"
Hell yeah!! why did we all forget to do that?
man i love this forum. my day's are brighter as a result.
Author: flowrite
Posted: Fri Jan 19 2001 11:16 am
Paul no one likes being misunderstood. Okay so you want the word assertive to be associated with force, you checked some dictionaries now and you have found a definition that suits your argument.
But my Oxford uses more or less the above definitions in your post except the word force, no mention of it.
I thought the common usage of the word assertiveness did not mean force, that's why I used it. It could be one of these words that are in a state of flux. However what is wrong with being strong, confident and able to affirm, that's the whole point.
flowrite
Author: misiunas
Posted: Fri Jan 19 2001 09:00 pm
I definately missed the point, then. I was still working under the assumption of your original post where you stated your fear of communication.
If you want to be assertive to overcome that fear, then that is just fine. If you want to be agressive to overcome that fear, then that is just fine with me as well.
Sometimes, looking past our own noses, we see, well... sometimes we just don't see a darn thing! Good thing I wear glasses. I can fool everyone! :-)
Paul
Author: flowrite
Posted: Sat Jan 20 2001 10:43 am
Sometimes posting on a thread and re posting is a process in itself and I find that I start to work through things and have insights. Getting stuff down in type can unravel confusion and purge the past. You can get your thoughts down clearly and concisely and no one to interrupt you. Many public figures and famous people who write their memoirs or biography admit to finding it therapeutic.
flowrite
Author: misiunas
Posted: Sat Jan 20 2001 01:06 pm
flowrite, I'm glad that this is helping you to clear up your confusion. Not a problem.
Here is some good material about handling confusion. It's from 'Self Clearing': http://fza.org/doc1126
Take at look at 23.3: Confusion.
Let me know if this does anything for you.
Paul
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