OT VIII
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Thur 14 Jan 1999 02:19 am
I started running it. It is great! Anyone else auditing?
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Sun 7 Feb 1999 12:01 pm
What exactly is it you are running? I'm not aware of what the OTVIII processes are. I'd like to know.
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Mon 8 Feb 1999 06:27 am
Check out http://ralph.hilton.org/ Look for Expanded OTVIII That is what I am running.
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Mon 8 Feb 1999 08:40 am
Thanks. I'll check it out today.
Author: V
Posted: Thur 15 Apr 1999 11:31 pm
Hello, I read your post and have always been fascinated by OT8. I believe that these drills are very useful. I noticed some GPM material, that's good. I also happened to feel somewhat separated from this universe and reality in general. Most people would see separation as a scary thought meriting insanity. I believe that insanity has to do with beeing swallowed by reality. Think about it, if I get together with three of my closest friends to play a game (say, Monopoly), and we play this game for two days(providing we are at peak interest the entire time), have we not in some small way gone to insanity? Send me your reply.
Author: waterlily [waterlilly@bla-bla.com]
Posted: Sun 30 May 1999 08:14 pm
Sorry I'm so late in replying. Just came back to see if there were any additions and found your post.
Re: Monopoly, no, I wouldn't consider that insanity--three people get together and create a reality for awhile--nothing wrong with that--unless they carry out the image over to another reality and try to buy their groceries with Monopoly money.:)
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Tues 21 Sep 1999 09:47 am
I still haven't seen the actual OTVIII material on the net yet. I have done new OTVIII at the ship, but am currently off-lines completely.
Has ANYONE spilled the beans yet on new OTVIII?
I'm just curious. I haven't told anyone yet, myself. There's no one really to tell; who would care, or even comprehend? You need extensive experience with Scn to be ready for it.
OTVIII is actually no big deal, in terms of being a big "revelation" of anything. The technical fact back of OTVIII is quite logical, and proceeds from data you would already know from previous case actions and certain basic Scn books. OTVIII itself is a simple fact, but very well evaluated. The joke of it is that anyone who has done OTIII, and/or New OTV-VII is already in full possession of the data. You are unlikely to have placed the proper evaluation on "the fact".
It is NOT all this weird Jesus and anti-Christian stuff I have seen printed up.
It is rediculous to think that you need a $40,000.000.00 ship to deliver it. You could deliver OTVIII with a very small crew with no more floor space that the typical small Mission.
Though ACTUAL new OTVIII is very simple, and very simple to audit, it does yield a TON of Tone Arm Action. I am quite glad I did it, if only to discover that I wasn't missing out on something that I desperately needed to know.
Once I completed it, I knew that I was truly alone in my search for OT abilities. I am quite certain I'll never find true Operating Thetan as long as the current crew is in charge.
I am doing careful experimentation with 50's Scn material, toward achieving some kind of stable state of OT. My true OT experiences have been ACTUAL, but fleeting. It looks like a long road. I know I am not going to waste my time doing "endless New OTVII" as seems to be the latest fad. How cruel to overrun people, kust to continue extracting $$$ from the few remaining loyalists.
Author: po
Posted: Tues 21 Sep 1999 10:20 am
Hi Anonymous,
Thank you for your posting. We can use more assistance from individuals who have gone through what the church has presented. I am also curious about the OT levels, as many are here, and have heard too many conflicting pieces of information regarding what is or isn't beging offered today.
I have been told that the actual OT8 has never left the ship, and have no way to confirm or deny this.
I have also heard that the OT levels have changed a bit over the years.
Maybe you could help us clarify some of these things.
Author: Catman
Posted: Wed 22 Sep 1999 12:50 am
To Anonymous who has done O.T. 8
Thank you for your post.
How long ago did you do it? And, while maintaining your anonymity, what were the circumstances leading up to your disallusionment and departure from the COS?
What is your current standing with the COS?
What were your feelings toward the COS while you your doing O.T.8?
How long were you on it? What was your E.P.?
I'm sure many would like to know.
Make up yourself a name so we can anonymously recognize you.
Thank you
Catman
Author: Dacael
Posted: Wed 22 Sep 1999 06:38 pm
Anonymous,
I would be very interested in your take on externalization. I get asked about it a lot, but I think it to be a small part of an "OT" experience. A greater part of the experience being the ability to look inward. That doesn't seem to be within the reality of most.
Dacael
Author: jR
Posted: Thur 23 Sep 1999 06:17 am
Hello Dacael, I am predisposed to agree with you. When I first read "FoT" and lerned about Ron's new concept of what he thought an OT was, I was truly blown away. After having experienced that many times over in different ways, I can say, in regards to that experience, when it happens it happens. According to Galusha, "It's like eating yesterdays hamburger, it was a good hamburger, but you already ate it. Now it's time to eat another one." Simply knowing that creates a sense of spiritual ecstacy, and I found out for myself that I always could and always did operate "outside" of my body, I just didn't know it. In fact I know that I am inherently an OT and I believe this to be self evident, I wouldn't sit down one day and try to be a human or create some human state, I'm already there. So that's all.
Author: Dacael
Posted: Thur 23 Sep 1999 04:16 pm
jR
Thats it, you got it. Don't try to be something, just be what you are, discover it if you need to and you'll be an OT. The only thing that is external is the physical universe. What is internal, which is the bank, is the considerations that lock up your abilities. Going external doesn't get you away from your bank, it only changes your point of view. Going fully (FULLY)internal gets you temperally out of your bank, which is also out of the physical universe.
Dacael
Author: Sam
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 10:39 am
Such great guys. My eyes light up when I see jR or Dacael or Cat. And Anon., I hope you don't mind if I eavesdrop on what the big guys are doing. Hope you all can forgive some of my more silly comments. I'm at the bottom of the gradechart really. Got a lot to learn. I just hope I can do it in this lifetime. Thanks.
Author: Dacael
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 07:15 pm
Sam,
Who said you were at the bottom of the gradechart?
Dac
Author: Bud
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 07:34 pm
I believe him Dac. He has also posted to this board under the names of Catman, eyeinthesky, blackwidow,Anon, blasforme etc. Don't be so easily fooled.
Author: jR
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 07:45 pm
Bud-Wies-er. Wies-crack-er. Nothing-better-to-do.
Author: Dacael
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 07:48 pm
Bud,
I haven't been on the site long enough to know all the alter egos of all the players. I'm starting to get it.
Dac
Author: jR
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 07:50 pm
I think we should use our time wisely and open up to positive topics. Don't you?
Author: jR
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 07:52 pm
Hey Dacael, wanna chat?
Author: jR
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 07:59 pm
Oh well, maybe some other time I hope!
Author: Sam
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 08:10 pm
I'm not Catman nor any of the other names you mentioned.
Author: Catman and friends
Posted: Sat 25 Sep 1999 11:44 pm
Sam, are you me too?
Catman and friends
Author: Dacael
Posted: Sun 26 Sep 1999 08:50 am
Catman,
Your wacky sense of humor really does get on some peoples nerves. Good job. Humor keeps us from taking this stuff to seriously, which helps us make more rapid case gain.
Dac
Author: Catman and friends
Posted: Sun 26 Sep 1999 11:27 am
Dac, thanks, I think. I love to be invalidated and validated in the same sentence.
No I'm just joking, thanks Dac for your comm.
And if my "humour" (that's debatable in itself) gets on someones nerves I'll just have to try harder...... to piss em off even more next time.
But I'm glad you enjoy my insouciance,
Catman and friends
Author: Sam
Posted: Sun 26 Sep 1999 06:31 pm
You are both great guys, but Sam isn't Cat, just to clarify that. I do think that there is some ARC between some of the more sane and theta posters here and those who don't like that, try to discredit the fact by saying it is all the same person. Cat is a great guy. There are a few good people here. I saw one post lately where someone seemed to take offense to the fact that there is some affinity flowing around, and said "Don't be fooled!". I don't get it.
Author: Courtjester (Courtjester)
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 05:10 am
Sam: re your comment that "There are a few good people here".
The implication of your words, as I take it anyway, is that some here are not in that group.
Intentionally or not, that constitutes an invalidation of beings. Is that your intention? If so, I would like to state a counter intention. I would say that all who post here are good folks.
I don't like everything everyone says, and I don't like some apparant motives that people are coming from. But shall I say that they are not good people just because I do not like them or their actions.
Words are very powerful things. We do not have to have an intent to destroy to have that effect.
Author: Catman
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 09:52 am
Courtjester, all who post here are not good folks.
You need to learn to recognize that.
This planet is composed of good beings and not so good beings.
Those with good intentions, who like to see others do well and are generally survival oriented.
And those that take on many guises who don't have such good intentions who are fighting enemies of long ago and will take you down with them.
There is also a lot of ignorance and blind following on this sight.
I know you're just trying to be fair and optimistic, and I respect that. And I wish you were right.
Unfortunately you are not.
This is a very sick planet, with some very sick beings.
There are good decent people.
And many who post here fall into that category.
There are some who don't.
Sam has merely recognized that fact.
I think it's a matter of obnosis. His seems to be in pretty good shape.
C.J., I know that sometimes it's hard to believe, but there are people out there who would blow your head off and not even blink.
Invalidate the hell out of them!
Catman
Author: HairyKrishna
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 10:02 am
Catman, you have done a good job describing yourself.
Viewpoints are magical. They create the universe in which we live.
HairyKrishna
Author: Courtjester (Courtjester)
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 05:26 pm
Catman, you are right, of course, at least on one axis of truth.
I think this is one of those two axis deal. I personally think there are very few persons who are truly in the bad camp, fewer still that post here. Of course, I can't speak of you, because I do not know you that well. But I doubt you are a bad person.
Then you have another whole axis of truth which is how do I position myself relative to other people. Oddly, this is a big predictor of how "bad" they act towards me. If I treat them well, the rule of reciprocity kicks in and they are likely to treat me better back.
I am sure there is some fancy ten syllable scientology concept here somewhere, but it doesn't come to mind.
On the other hand, if I treat more people like they are bad, I will be proven right, because they will sense that just as a horse senses fear. And they will act as I have predicted them to. And not feel bad about it either.
Life is messy.
Author: Catman and friends
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 06:06 pm
C.J., you can treat some people as nice as you wish.
They'll still take you down with them.
Happens all the time.
It's not a matter of being paranoid, it's more one of observation and understanding.
It is important to trust one's fellows.
It is equally important to be able to detect those that don't deserve your trust.
There were no personal attacks in my post, as there was in hairy's reply.
But we've come to expect that from him. No surprise there.
Keep your obnosis in C.J.
Your a nice guy. Don't be fooled.
Catman and friends
Author: Courtjester (Courtjester)
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 06:23 pm
Some of that depends on your own abilities to set boundaries. Sometimes it gets me down, sometimes not. Usually, if I can as-is it, doesn't, unless I've got some unprocessed shit to work out.
One thing I know is absolutely 100% true for me 100% of the time. If I find someone who really really really really really pisses me off then he is doing something that I do myself that I don't like about myself that I haven't finished as-ising.
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 07:32 pm
and while the king was looking down
the jester stole his golden crown
the courtroom was adjourned...
...
they were singing
bye,bye miss american pie
etc.
Author: Ishmael
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 09:09 pm
>By Catman on Wednesday, September 22, 1999 - 12:50 am:To Anonymous who has done O.T. 8
Thank you for your post.
How long ago did you do it?And, while maintaining your anonymity, what were the circumstances leading up to your disallusionment and departure from the COS?What is your current standing with the COS? What were your feelings toward the COS while you your doing O.T.8?How long were you on it?What was your E.P.? I'm sure many would like to know. Make up yourself a name so we can anonymously recognize you.Thank you
Catman<
By the way, I am not on the typical "anti" lines, but I am always surprised that no one ever mentions the real scandal that's going on with Miscavige and company. He and a small clique are PLUNDERING the C of S accounts. It is embezzlement on a massive scale. One of the tricks they use is to invest C of S funds in high tech companies. My sources for this are impeccable (EXTREMELY honest observers) and have had DIRECT observation of upper management in certain meetings. Miscavige and Starkey justify their lavish lifestyles (Rolex watches, sports cars, alligator shoes and expensive jewelry) as being necessary for "PR purposes."
With true arrogance, this small clique did not even bother trying to hide their lifestyle and investments from my sources. I've never mentioned this before, but sufficient time has now elapsed so that management would wonder "which meetings?" I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has first hand knowledge of criminal financial conduct by Miscavige and company. There must be more on this, since they do not try to hide it particularly.
How do I reconcile "Ron's personal conduct" vs. "the tech?" Simple! Anyone who has done the upper pre-OT levels knows of certain complexities that make the anatomy of an "individual" less tham a simple proposition. "Nature of a Being" is a source on this that anyone could read. Ron was prone to out-ethics, and felt he was a law onto himself. "Self-centered" and "egotistical" are two words that come to mind. Remember the tape where he says (paraphrasing here) "I research this stuff 15 hours a day -- for God's sake don't force me to LIVE it!" That was a good joke on his part, but also true. I have known several of Ron's drinking buddies. He used to sneak out at night from St. Hill and ride around on his motorcycle getting plastered. It made MSH very angry. They argued a lot about his personal habits. As long as she was around to keep him in check, he was the better for it. He would have been much better off, and would probably be alive today if he hadn't been so out-ethics on chicken-shit, behavioural stuff. CORNY out-ethics. There was "Ron - the bad boy" and "Ron - the researcher". The personalities were split. I also think he DID get beat up pretty badly, mentally and physically, researching OT III. That's one job I sure would not have wanted. "Ron - the con man" versus "Ron - the Genius". You needn't try and reconcile the two; they're BOTH accurate. He was a scoundrel, he was greedy, but he was NOT a charlatan. "It'll go as far as it works."
LRH was never anything more to me than a guy who had put together some fantastic tech, and somehow threw together an organization to promote and deliver it. I am indebted to him for this know-how, and never demanded that he be "perfect". I never thought of him as my "saviour."
Good luck!
Ishmael
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 09:15 pm
>By Catman on Wednesday, September 22, 1999 - 12:50 am:To Anonymous who has done O.T. 8
Thank you for your post.
How long ago did you do it?And, while maintaining your anonymity, what were the circumstances leading up to your disallusionment and departure from the COS?What is your current standing with the COS? What were your feelings toward the COS while you your doing O.T.8?How long were you on it?What was your E.P.? I'm sure many would like to know. Make up yourself a name so we can anonymously recognize you.<
Call me Ishmael.
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 09:17 pm
>By Catman on Wednesday, September 22, 1999 - 12:50 am:<
(continued, from "Ishmael")
By the way, I am not on the typical "anti" lines, but I am always surprised that no one ever mentions the real scandal that's going on with Miscavige and company. He and a small clique are PLUNDERING the C of S accounts. It is embezzlement on a massive scale. One of the tricks they use is to invest C of S funds in high tech companies. My sources for this are impeccable (EXTREMELY honest observers) and have had DIRECT observation of upper management in certain meetings. Miscavige and Starkey justify their lavish lifestyles (Rolex watches, sports cars, alligator shoes and expensive jewelry) as being necessary for "PR purposes."
With true arrogance, this small clique did not even bother trying to hide their lifestyle and investments from my sources. I've never mentioned this before, but sufficient time has now elapsed so that management would wonder "which meetings?" I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has first hand knowledge of criminal financial conduct by Miscavige and company. There must be more on this, since they do not try to hide it particularly.
How do I reconcile "Ron's personal conduct" vs. "the tech?" Simple! Anyone who has done the upper pre-OT levels knows of certain complexities that make the anatomy of an "individual" less tham a simple proposition. "Nature of a Being" is a source on this that anyone could read. Ron was prone to out-ethics, and felt he was a law onto himself. "Self-centered" and "egotistical" are two words that come to mind. Remember the tape where he says (paraphrasing here) "I research this stuff 15 hours a day -- for God's sake don't force me to LIVE it!" That was a good joke on his part, but also true. I have known several of Ron's drinking buddies. He used to sneak out at night from St. Hill and ride around on his motorcycle getting plastered. It made MSH very angry. They argued a lot about his personal habits. As long as she was around to keep him in check, he was the better for it. He would have been much better off, and would probably be alive today if he hadn't been so out-ethics on chicken-shit, behavioural stuff. CORNY out-ethics. There was "Ron - the bad boy" and "Ron - the researcher". The personalities were split. I also think he DID get beat up pretty badly, mentally and physically, researching OT III. That's one job I sure would not have wanted. "Ron - the con man" versus "Ron - the Genius". You needn't try and reconcile the two; they're BOTH accurate. He was a scoundrel, he was greedy, but he was NOT a charlatan. "It'll go as far as it works."
LRH was never anything more to me than a guy who had put together some fantastic tech, and somehow threw together an organization to promote and deliver it. I am indebted to him for this know-how, and never demanded that he be "perfect". I never thought of him as my "saviour."
Good luck!
Ishmael
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 09:23 pm
To Anonymous who has done O.T. 8
Thank you for your post.
How long ago did you do it?
Sometime between 1988 and 1994. I cannot be more specific.
And, while maintaining your anonymity, what were the circumstances leading up to your disallusionment and departure from the COS?
Any description would be a dead giveaway. I personally could keep the blinders on long enough to do OT VIII. In my case, going all the way to the top of the Bridge was a matter of life or death, believe it or not, LITERALLY. Finally, people I cherish and love were in danger from the C of S, and I couldn't stay on the sidelines anymore.
What is your current standing with the COS?
I cannot say without jeapordizing my anonymity.
What were your feelings toward the COS while you your doing O.T.8?
Without being rancorous, I had a general feeling of contempt for upper management's competence. But then again, I have had the same feeling for almost any large earth corporation I have dealt with. I wasn't singling C of S management out, though they are especially guilty of extreme pretence about their abilities. I had felt, for 30 years, that the C of S was its own worst enemy. I just wanted to get as much Bridge as I could before they self destructed or were sued into the dirt. There was no real hostility stemming from M/W/H's and so forth on my part. My income and association with certain Scientology executives smoothed the way for entry onto OT VIII. Isn't it amazing how fast moving the Bridge can be when you're "connected," and have LOTS of money. I only realized this later. I had kind of taken my fast progress for granted, compared to others who seemed to languish forever in eligibility cycles, set-up etc.
I am astonished that there isn't more internal dissent or palace coups going on. Miscavige's policies have obviously been ruinous. He's had almost 20 years to turn things around, and hasn't. A casual survey of almost any Class V org shows dwindle, dwindle, dwindle. The C of S is like a rotted out oak tree, waiting for a mild breeze. Eviscerating the mission network in the early 80's was catastrophic, Sterling Management was a poor substitute for a legitimate and thriving Mission/Org network. Staff are still going un-audited, the Universe Corp(e)s is a two-decade long fairy tale for naive children. Cases and Morale of Staff, my friend.
How long were you on it?
Not safe to say. Just say an "average" amount of time. Everyone knows it is a short level -- I never knew anyone who spent a long time auditing it, though some spent a long time redoing their E-Meter drills.
What was your E.P.?
There was no specific EP. I got a WHALE of a lot of TAA, I was very surprised at that, considering the relatively mild nature of what you do on New OT VIII. No massive cogs, just a lot of TAA. That's odd since I have always had a direct correlation between TAA and cogs. Not this time. When I was done getting TAA, I was done.
I'm sure many would like to know.
I would imagine people WOULD want to know. I'm am just curious why no one has defected and then posted the contents to the Internet. Everything else seems to have been blabbed. Whether I would ever do so, I do not care to comment on. I WOULD like to know if there is any leverage still to be had by at least THREATENING to do so, or having the capability. I want to know what use this would be to me in defending myself against the Church.
Make up yourself a name so we can anonymously recognize you.
Call me Ishmael.
By the way, I am not on the typical "anti" lines, but I am always surprised that no one ever mentions the real scandal that's going on with Miscavige and company. He and a small clique are PLUNDERING the C of S accounts. It is embezzlement on a massive scale. One of the tricks they use is to invest C of S funds in high tech companies. My sources for this are impeccable (EXTREMELY honest observers) and have had DIRECT observation of upper management in certain meetings. Miscavige and Starkey justify their lavish lifestyles (Rolex watches, sports cars, alligator shoes and expensive jewelry) as being necessary for "PR purposes."
With true arrogance, this small clique did not even bother trying to hide their lifestyle and investments from my sources. I've never mentioned this before, but sufficient time has now elapsed so that management would wonder "which meetings?" I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has first hand knowledge of criminal financial conduct by Miscavige and company. There must be more on this, since they do not try to hide it particularly.
How do I reconcile "Ron's personal conduct" vs. "the tech?" Simple! Anyone who has done the upper pre-OT levels knows of certain complexities that make the anatomy of an "individual" less tham a simple proposition. "Nature of a Being" is a source on this that anyone could read. Ron was prone to out-ethics, and felt he was a law onto himself. "Self-centered" and "egotistical" are two words that come to mind. Remember the tape where he says (paraphrasing here) "I research this stuff 15 hours a day -- for God's sake don't force me to LIVE it!" That was a good joke on his part, but also true. I have known several of Ron's drinking buddies. He used to sneak out at night from St. Hill and ride around on his motorcycle getting plastered. It made MSH very angry. They argued a lot about his personal habits. As long as she was around to keep him in check, he was the better for it. He would have been much better off, and would probably be alive today if he hadn't been so out-ethics on chicken-s*;*;t, behavioural stuff. CORNY out-ethics. There was "Ron - the bad boy" and "Ron - the researcher". The personalities were split. I also think he DID get beat up pretty badly, mentally and physically, researching OT III. That's one job I sure would not have wanted. "Ron - the con man" versus "Ron - the Genius". You needn't try and reconcile the two; they're BOTH accurate. He was a scoundrel, he was greedy, but he was NOT a charlatan. "It'll go as far as it works."
LRH was never anything more to me than a guy who had put together some fantastic tech, and somehow threw together an organization to promote and deliver it. I am indebted to him for this know-how, and never demanded that he be "perfect". I never thought of him as my "saviour."
Good luck!
Ishmael
Author: Truth In Advertising
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 10:10 pm
OT VIII Study, Top Secret Debrief, 1991
From recall this is a record of the full OT VIII procedure of the Church of Scientology given on the Free Winds ship as delivered in 1991. Security there is very tight with detectors at the doors so that no original data can be removed.
This debrief is something the Independent Field/Free Zone Scientology has been waiting many years to see. It is not the original nor is it a perfect record but it is accurate and will get the result if followed by a competent solo auditor who is flat on all earlier levels with all overts off.
The wording of the processes are exact to the best of my recall and the procedures are exact for sure. Any differences are extremely minor (if at all). I spent several weeks reconstructing all this from memory (needless to say I have an excellent memory as a result of the rundown).
I am breaking security as I disagree that this should only be released to an elite in Scientology. I do, however, ask it not be released to psyches or "squirrels" or anyone who will break the Independent Security Network and allow it to get back to the Church of Scientology. It would be best if they do not find out that we have it. Please treat this data responsibly. It is the key to the only truth possible.
The whole secret involves what truly is the relationship of the Supreme Being to each individual thetan. To simply say it's `me" is oversimplified to tears but has some truth to it. The real key is the perception and ability to have full certainty and, therefore, perception on all confusions and distortions of MEST (matter, energy, space, and time) and form and life units as well as the ability to perceive exact identity and its full relationship to its true source and history from its origin as the theta body, the true 8th Dynamic In order to truly view this as a present time beingness one has to Clean up, once and for all, his own confusions regarding these points. The key is being flat on all earlier levels and being honest with self as to the truth on each step of the rundown.
In doing this procedure one has to acknowledge the lie of time and persistence and the lie of the illusion that MEST is solid and unchangeable. Another key given is the fact that a being can exist independent of time and present time and can chose any point on the track as his present time. The PT (present time) body can confuse this, as attention to some degree is always hung up on the PT body. This fixes the thetan into one present time and one time stream, when in fact there are many as you will discover.
Do not attempt this rundown if you are incomplete on any earlier level, incomplete on or in need of "sec checks," (security checks) involved in any out ethics, PTS or involved in any pressing PT situations that call your attention back to this present time. If you are in need of review on any point above, get it before starting the rundown or it will miss and be meaningless or wasted.
If your attention is in any way governed by OT 7 (NOTs) or earlier materials on OT levels, this rundown will miss and be wasted. This also goes for out int. If interiorization/exteriorization is a concern at all, get reviewed and flattened on OT I to VII before attempting this rundown.
The techniques involve simple spotting techniques as in R2 processes or straightwire references.
Step One: Read and word clear Handbook for Preclears cover to cover.
Step Two: Do all steps and exercises in the above book and note reads on any terminals or items [presumably these are used in review or higher levels later]. Keep the ruds in.
Step Three: Listen to the History of Man tapes and star rate M4 the concepts in them (The Time Track of Theta).
Step Four: Clear the definition of `truth" and clay demo it [Tech Dictionary].
Step Five: Clay demo the concept of the theta line branching out toward PT from the "theta body" and how this inhibits exteriorization, ability, power and perception of truth. Clay demo what will happen if someone did OT VIII procedure who was not fully completed on OT VII (NOTs). Sort this out from the above data.
Step Six: Define "know-point" in the Tech Dictionary.
Step Seven: Study the early Dianetic Auditor Bulletin on straightwire in Tech Volume One. Study Creation of Human Ability references regarding spotting objectively and subjectively. Demo "recall," `spotting" and "return" and how these differ.
Step Eight: This is the processing section which is done solo. Do not fall into running pictures or incidents. In others words, do not use "recall" or "return," use spot" only.
1.Fly the ruds.
2.Clear and false data strip "truth," identity, time," place," "form" and event," each to EP. Restudy the definitions in the Tech Dictionary.
3.Clear and False Data Strip the 8th Dynamic," God," "Infinity," 'self," anyone you have identified as a god and any other wording you may have for the 8th dynamic.
4.Valence split (Similarity/Difference process) each answer on the reading questions below by alternately spotting differences and similarities between self and the terminal to a blow accompanied by a small blowdown F/N or larger.
A.Spot a person or object in this L/T [lifetime] or on the backtrack you have identified as or who represented the 8th Dynamic to you. Valence split to EP and then recheck to an F/Ning question on call or thought. End the session for the day and recheck to ensure it's F/Ning the next day before continuing.
B.Spot a person who looked/looks like you. Handle as above.
C.Spot a person who looked/looks dissimilar to you. Handle as above.
D.Spot a person who is how you wanted/want to be. Handle as above.
E.Spot a person who is how you didn't want to be. Handle as above.
F.Spot a person who you'd never want to be. Handle as above.
G.Spot a person who you want to be. Handle as above.
H.Spot a person who you identify as self [me]. Handle as above. End on major stable win on the subject of identity.
Step Nine:
Run as above with Valence Splitting, etc.
1.Ruds as needed
2.Spot a being who is close in true identity to you.
3.Spot a being who has the same experiences as you.
4.Spot a being who solves things as you have.
5.Spot a being you are or have been junior or subordinate to as a thetan or in life.
6.Spot a being who you are/have been senior to in life or as a thetan.
7.Spot a person who postulates as you do.
8.Spot a person who you postulate for.
9.Spot a person who may have postulated for you.
10.Spot the situation or problem each of the above beings has solved for you. Get prior confusion to the first time ever and spot the first moment of the first prior confusion.
End on major stable win on the subject audited; however, do Step 10 before proceeding.
Step Ten:
Use alternate repetitive straightwire.
End on wins. End section when nothing reads anymore and you have a major stable win.
1.Spot a truth in self. Spot a truth in others.
2.Have another spot a truth in you.
Have another spot a truth in himself/herself.
3.Spot a reality you have solved with a lie.
Spot a reality you have not solved with a lie.
4.Spot a reality you have substituted for a truth.
Spot a reality you have substituted for a lie.
5.Spot a reality another has substituted for a truth.
Spot a reality another has substituted for a lie.
6.Spot a reality you postulated for another.
What did it solve for you?
What did it solve for him/her?
7.Spot a reality another has postulated for you.
What did it solve for him/her?
What did it solve for you?
8.Have another spot a reality another has postulated in himself/herself.
What did it solve for him/her?
What did it solve for you?
9.Locate a reality you found safe.
Spot the truth about it. (to a blow, small blowdown F/N or larger)
10.Locate a reality another found safe.
Spot the truth about it. (to a blow, small blowdown F/N or larger)
11.Locate a reality another found safe for you.
Spot the truth about it. (to a blow, small blow down F/N or larger)
Have the other person spot the truth about it. (to a blow, small blow down F/N or larger)
12.Locate a reality you have found safe for another.
Spot the truth about it. (to a blow small blow down F/N or larger)
Have the other person spot the truth about it. (to a blow, small blow down F/N or larger)
13.Spot a reality you can create for yourself.
Postulate a truth for it.
14.Spot a reality you can create for another.
Postulate a truth for it.
15.Spot a reality you can have another create for you.
Postulate a truth for it.
Note: Steps [16] to [19] are a bracket. Each set should blow down on the let go step. End on a win, cog or big change and then do the next step.
16.Create a future for someone.
Place them in it.
Postulate some truth about it.
Now let go of it
17.Create a future for yourself.
Place yourself in it.
Place another in it.
Postulate some truth about it.
Now let go of it.
18.Recall a truth you agreed didn't happen.
Spot the exact truth in it.
Spot any lie in it.
Now let go of it.
19.Spot present time moving forward.
Notice thetans agreeing with it.
Spot any agreements you have with it.
Now let go of it.
Spot a different present time.
Notice thetans agreeing with it.
Spot any agreements you have with it.
Now let go of it.
Spot a different present time.
Notice thetans agreeing with it.
Spot any agreements you have with it.
Now let go of it.
(Repeat to a small blowdown F/N, big win)
Step Eleven:
Do all steps to full EP. End on all wins until persistent F/N dies down.
A.Spot each portion of your theta that was abandoned.
B.Spot each portion of your theta you asserted was not yours.
C.Spot each portion of theta you asserted was yours that wasn't.
D.Spot your PT creations in this MEST universe.
E.Spot PT creations that were not yours in this MEST universe.
F.Spot any old creations that are hung up.
Spot the truth about these to a blow.
Note: Don't concentrate on the untruths, just the truths.
G.Spot yourself as a source for various things in this and other universes to full certainty.
H.Spot another 8th Dynamic creation as independent from yourself.
Spot where it is.
I.Spot points where you have experienced joy or ecstasy in creating in this lifetime and on the back track.
J.Spot other beings you feel high ARC or love for.
Spot the truths in these beings. (each to a read F/N)
K.Spot some theta you have created.
L.Create some theta. Uncreate it. (to a read as it blows off however small it is)
Redo A to L above until, the TA floats or a true unkillable persistent F/N appears and you have had a revelation regarding truth or 8th Dynamic creation. This is the end of OT VIII.
Note: I wasn't privy to any C/Sing or review techniques or other EP data. Beyond this there is no confidential EP to my knowledge.
Author: Truth In Advertising
Posted: Mon 27 Sep 1999 10:12 pm
Ishmael, stop being such a wimp.
Author: po
Posted: Tues 28 Sep 1999 07:47 am
Hi truth and Ishmael,
truth, could you clarify this?
J.Spot other beings you feel high ARC or love for.
Spot the truths in these beings. (each to a read F/N).
do you mean a read, or an f/n or an instant f/n or something else?
Thank you very much for all this data. It is very interestig. I just finished some help processing, and was surprised to see some similarities.
Ishamel,
I read a post on ARS recently, possibly by you that discusses the dismantaling of scientology. Something about a two step process where the group reaches financial ruin, then to assist those who were within. Was that you? There was no mention in this article about positive benefits of the tech, just an end of the group. Sorry if it wan't you. It is sometimes hard to determine the exact author on ARS with all the threads and snipping.
Author: HairyKrishna
Posted: Tues 28 Sep 1999 08:47 am
Catman, no invalidation intended.
My point was that viewpoints define our view of "reality".
I can say that people are basically good.
I can also say that most people are blind to who and what they are.
Those are viewpoints and define the originator.
Maybe I missed the point that you got this.
Take pity on me. After all, I'm blind. :-)
HairyKrishna
Author: HairyKrishna
Posted: Tues 28 Sep 1999 08:57 am
Thanks for the ancedotes and vague personal answers, Ishmael.
I believe that the natives are data starved and may be more intelligent than at first thought.
I can understand hiding, but would encourage you to pass along your insights and ideas. The power of intelligence should not ignored.
I look forward to seeing more of your postings.
HairyKrishna
Author: HairyKrishna
Posted: Tues 28 Sep 1999 09:30 am
re the above write-up:
I think that CBR did a much better job in addressing "portions of theta" and "creations" than the church did.
"valence splitting" is invalidative and assumes that by OT 8 the being stills doesn't have a clue that he is running on "survival mechanics". That says a lot about how service facsimilies are being handled earlier on the grade chart.
If you are really in the mood, try Filbert's, much better, version (inability side):
=======
The next action is to take up the inability side of OT 8, which is freedom from the inability to be totally free and at total cause, which you can achieve with these 14 2-way comm. processes:
1. What determines when you are in a good or bad mood?
2. What causes you to win/lose?
3. What leads to winning and losing?
4. What happens right before winning/losing?
In each of these you are looking for the personal common denominator a person has on each, so it is really 8 processes instead of 4. You are also looking for personal mechanisms that are wired to successful and unsuccessful cause.
You will notice that I am using "what" now which can produce L/N phenomena, but by now your preclear is not going to be bothered by this at all, for he is about a million times the size he was back when he was on the grades, and since then has discovered "truth as a way of life", for sure. The rest of the processes are:
5. Do you have a character flaw? (If so, get it and clean it up). If 2wc won't clear it, use L&N.
6. What do you do best?
The rest are "instantaneous answer" processes, except for the last 2:
7. How do you act when things or the going gets rough?
8. Who do you act like when pressured into it?
9. What makes a person win?
10. What type of person survives all things?
11. What is your favourite archetype character on track?
12. What future are you preparing yourself against?
13. What is the origin of evil? (This will be a very long 2wc. There will be a subjective answer for them. They need to know it, or they will not be prepared to live the rest of their lives, which happens to be a very long time.)
14. What is your greatest enemy?
This completes the inability side of OT8 and you take an attest.
========
You will notice that the being is validated through Filbert's method.
If you like "differences and similarities" I'd suggest UCP. Works great.
HairyKrishna
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Wed 6 Oct 1999 01:51 pm
Hello from Ishmael;
Well, I only visit the net very few weeks or so. I just reviewed some of the postings since I last dropped in, and I now see a fantastically complicated and utterly fabricated version of "OTVIII." Obviously, someone just cooked this up for fun, although it had a lot of good "boilerplate" from a mish-mash of other scientology processes. At least this person didn't try to pass off that old, revolting, anti-christian "version" of OTVIII.
I think my original question has been answered. OTVIII is still "secure," though it is hilarious to me since the joke is that there is nothing on OTVIII that needs to be secure.
The only need for security on the RD is that if the remaining public in Scn found out how insignificant TRUTH REVEALED is (as a process) they would likely challenge the wisdom of wasting $40,000.000.00 on a ship to deliver it. The data is even LESS secure on an ocean-going vessel, as some of the banana republics it docks in are rather arbitrary, and might just seize the ship without due process.
It IS true that you read HOM on the course, but almost anyone could know that who has worked in or near the bookstore on the Ship. I'll repeat what I said in an earlier posting: there is nothing on OTVIII that you could not quote from a stray LRH tape, a passage from HOM, or well-known phenomena gleaned from (but not important TO OTV and OTVII.) The key, again, lies in the EVALUATION of that particular piece of information. It has been expertly and precisely evaluated, but way oversold by the current (temporary) management. OTVII is far more significant as a level, as you might imagine from the months/years you usually need spend on it.
There are only a couple fresh HCOB's, read at the very end of the course. The first part of the course (the usual drill with KSW, reading HOM, doing various clay demo's etc. is truly just PADDING! I was excited, early on in the course, as I thought we might be running some HOM stuff, but the truth was far more tame. I don't quite remember, but I think you might also read a few bits from Handbook For Preclears; it has been some years though, and I don't quite remember. HOM for sure, though.
The process can be described in just a couple sentences, and doesn't resemble ANYTHING like the complex forgery I just read. I don't intend to confirm anyone's version of OTVIII unless it is the CORRECT one. If someone does publish it, then I will confirm, since there would no longer be any need to keep it secret. I did obtain excellent TAA from it, so there is something there (I assume) that anyone might need to "handle."
I have found out pretty much what I needed to know. I'll drop by a few more times to see if anyone has posted the true OTVIII materials (not the actual materials themselves, but at least a simple paraphrase.) The materials themselves are definitely secure, due to the electronic and electrical interlock you must plug the course pack into when you sit down. My course sup (Alice) was the best sup I ever had in scn; the word clearer was also excellent (really knew his/her business.) They were an excellent, dedicated team.
Thank you,
Ishmael
Author: Anonymous
Posted: Wed 6 Oct 1999 02:12 pm
Hello again from Ishmael;
I am posting this just after my last post, as I hadn't read far enough to see the purported "inability side of OTVIII."
This is another forgery, but a bit more clumsy. I notice that the fellow mentions at one point that a 2WC is done on one thing or another. This is clear evidence of forgery, as the entire level is done solo (with the exception of preliminary sec checking and any needed repair lists.)
I must say that the auditor I had was of the highest quality.
He/She managed to keep me relaxed through the sec check; I don't mind saying that I have always found sec checks to be a bit of a nervous ordeal. I've never been one for doing strange things in the WC, but everyone with a shred of sanity is conscious of their private O/W's and M/W/H's, and it is simultaneously humbling and tense to deliver them into the hands of another person. The main thing that always made me tense was the fact that so much was RIDING on the sec check -- would you be deemed "unworthy?" Would you be sent off on some lengthy soul-searching mission?
The fellow that posted this "inability side of OTVIII" drivel is either a bad hat or just on a lark.
Thank you,
Ishmael
Author: Grasshopper
Posted: Wed 6 Oct 1999 06:46 pm
Ishmael, thank you for your post.
What is your current status. Are you in good standing with the COS? You mentioned you had a great sup and auditor while doing your OTV111. Considering everything you know at this point, is it your opinion that still the best way to get up the bridge is through the COS or would it be better to avoid them now and work your way up through some alternative, fz situation? How are YOU doing spiritually?
Thank you.
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