We could all be rich
Author: Tom
Posted: Mon 2 Oct 2000 06:04 am
Argument 1:
High prices keep the public on a safe gradient.
Supporting facts
a. dianetics is pushed first(very good in my judgement). Then the fundamentals of thought. The lectures are sold at a much higher price. Other books like "The creation of Human Ability" are sold at around 5 times the price of the very affordable Dainteics or Self Analisis.
b. I did follow this gradient, and feel that my learning progress benifitted from that sequence.
c. Let us do the pricing, and stop bothering us to death.
Alternative views
a. Sometimes the price of lectures exceeds someone elses budget. This could be a social personallity who would use what he learned to benifit society.
b. Let's not let the "fear of being out-reality" be an excuse for not making progress in positive directions.Some people may actually be higher on the gradient, and to misjudge that would be a tragity.
C. BY MAKING SOME LECTURES MORE AFFORDABLE, AND BY MAKING OTHERS AFFORDABLE(THE FSM COURSE AND THE DISSEM. COURSE ARE FREE, I THINK) CERTAIN TECH CAN BE DIRECTED TO THE STUDENTS, AND CERTAIN TECH IS MADE INACCESSIBLE(IF THAT'S A WORD, NOT-GET-ABLE)
Judge: Here here, you must quiet down.
Supporting facts
We have to pay for services, and the future of Scientology depends upon money.
Alternative views
The future of Scientology depends upon communicating it and using it. No auditting seems to be happening.
Supporting facts
It's better to audit a few rich people very well than it is to audit a bunch of poor people(who are obviously SPs).
My judgement is for the plaintiff, whichever one that is. Give the man back his poodle, and you, sir, owe this lady a new fence.
Author: Ed Rhett
Posted: Mon 2 Oct 2000 05:39 pm
RE: We could all be rich
There are more successful barbor shops and beauty parlors than there are Scientology Independent Auditors. Two reasons why are:
1)Suicidal pricing. Getting an ARCX handling is about as important to people as getting a haircut or a permanent. If barbor shops and beauty parlors charged $300.00 per hour in the chair, we would all look like hippies. Personally, I found a barbor shop that charges $3.00 for a haircut, and I only go there once a month. It is adequate. But I would gladly pay 50.00 an hour for auditing. And the barbor shop I go to would be getting very comfortable (but not really rich) if they could get $50.00 per hour out of each barbor's chair.
2)Multi-million dollar lawsuits, infiltration, monopolistic corporate warfare. The church pays millions of dollars a year to kill off the competition. To the degree that we go along with any of it, we have been brainwashed. (Which, by the way, is the real purpose of the KSW policy letter series.)
We will continue to be too stupid to make a living delivering scientology services, until we separate tech, brainwashing, and monopolistic corporate warfare. By the way, the definition of stupid is slow to understand, that's all. So as long as they attack quickly, and we defend ourselves slowly, that is stupidity, and we will be unable to survive the onslaught.
A successful beauty shop operation can make $30,000 to $90,000 per year, for a one person shop. Depending on level of technical expertise, area economics, business skills, and length of time it takes to establish a practice.
We are not all going to be rich, but we could make $30,000 to 90,000 per year, to the degree that we get real and dump the brainwashing.
Author: Paul
Posted: Mon 2 Oct 2000 08:18 pm
And focus on those who actually want to be professional auditors, and allow them to make a living on those who wish to focus on other activities.
I would gather that there are endless numbers of highly trained auditors right now, who aren't allowed to audit, do to the monopolistic pricing of the church.
They aren't allowed to audit.
I still think that students after level 0, for example, should be able to charge a nominal $25 an hour for auditing and then the rates can go up from there.
A real Pro with many years of experience can charge more, but a good auditor could still make a living at $50 an hour.
If the purpose of charging so much for auditing is in order to steer people into training, then this philosophy is failing.
Add to this the fact that the upper OT levels are being held back anyhow, so the other bit of PR, that it's so important to create real OT's, is a fallacy also.
The system just isn't working as intended, or a small group has run it into the ground.
Author: John
Posted: Mon 2 Oct 2000 08:44 pm
Gosh Paul,
Isn't auditing psychotherapy?
hmm...
Author: Ed Rhett
Posted: Mon 2 Oct 2000 10:48 pm
I don't think Ron was a good manager.
First, he lost the Dianetics Trademark to Don Purcell in Wichita, Kansas, I believe. To solve that problem, he differentiated Dianetics and Scientology, and he promoted Scientology in Phoenix, Arizona.
A few years later he moved to East Grinsted, Sussex, just down the road from the little town of Tavistock, England, and church managment took on the characteristic psychological warfare managment style of Tavistock (British Psychological Warfare)
Then Ron brought headquarters back to the USA, and before long there was a lot of covert government action going on, resulting in Ron's wife going to jail, new people taking over control, and the Deputy Director for the IRS, Mr Meade Emory, creating the charter for a new corporate entity to take control of the trademarks and copyrights of Scientology and Dianetics.
The question is not whether or not the church has been taken over, but how many times, and which agency of which government ownes it now.
The system is working exactly as intended, but whose intention are we speeking of.
The church runs tight control of scientology auditors, control is more important than delivery.
There are no OT levels, only pre OT levels.
Instead of clearing the planet, a small, tightly controlled clique has been formed, and isolated from the rest of humanity.
Scientology technology, most of which could be validated by scientific research, gets about as much professional attention and research as UFO's.
The wog world is being alienated by fiascos like Lisa McPhearson, and the people inside the church are being made into fanatics and milked dry of all financial resources.
Churchies were being warned, by rumor line, about the impending Marcabian takeover at about the time I left. The wog public was, for some strange reason, getting the strange idea that Scientologists were just another nutcase UFO watcher cult.
So we had a textbook third party behavior, and meanwhile the CIA was developing Military Remote Viewing, based on Anchor Points. The concept of anchor points was never mentioned anywhere, in the supernatural, occult, new age, etc fields, until Ron Hubbard mentioned anchor points in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course.
The only thing wrong with the Church is that is is too valuable to be left alone. The church is doing exactly what the people who own it intend it to do.
And all the highly trained auditor's, who aren't allowed to audit, also aren't allowed to use their computer without net nanny, because the CIA doesn't want them to know who is holding them back. Scientology has to be promoted to survive, and right now, it is being strangled by the people who are most loyal to it.
You can't say that the CIA is stupid.
Author: charles
Posted: Tues 3 Oct 2000 08:55 am
if the church would be on policy, as they promise in golden age of tech, they would have to apply the policy on prices ( one intensive....that time 25 hours...should cost an average monthly income of the country ). The church does not follow this policy, they want only the upstat, but clear the planet, so there is a stupidity, or supression inside. They have no chance in the long range with this kind of lies !!!
Author: charles
Posted: Tues 3 Oct 2000 08:57 am
if the church would be on policy, as they promise in golden age of tech, they would have to apply the policy on prices ( one intensive....that time 25 hours...should cost an average monthly income of the country ). The church does not follow this policy, they want only the upstat, but clear the planet, so there is a stupidity, or supression inside. They have no chance in the long range with this kind of lies !!!
Author: TOM
Posted: Thur 5 Oct 2000 12:04 pm
Ed, good writeup.
Ron wasn't perfect.
iT'S GOOD TO HEAR SOMEONE EVALUATE THE TECH AND POLICIES. iT'S A GOOD THING.
Only no-responsibility cases play this "I'm just following policy, and it's Ron's fault if something goes wrong" game. I get those kinds of employees("well, you told me to blah blah....). No responsibity cases make up the mojority of job applicants that I get.
It's debatable whether ROn was a good manager> I would say so. I would certainly think so from an employers standpoint. He wasn't your average "Joe burger flipper".
But you HAVE to question his policies. It's called evaluation, and anyone who tells you that evaluation is not OK is GLIB, glib, glib. There is the admin scale. There is enough policy in the VOl. Ministers handbook alone to solve any problem the church seems to have.
I Saw the pricing policies, and they were high, way too high in my opinion. BUT, AND HERE'S THE POINT, THE REFINEMENT OF THE CHURCH WAS MADE IN THE DIRECTION OF A BETTER PRODUCT FOR THE cos(tm), BUT I DON'T THINK THAT STOPPING CO AUDITTING, AND STOPPING COMPETITION(OTHER PEOPLE AUDITTING)WAS EVER RON'S INTENT.tHERE WRE PLENTY OF POLICIES SUPPORTING THIS VIEW.IN OTHER WORDS, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CHURCH CHARGING A BILLION DOLLARS AN HOUR SO LONG AS THEY DON'T TRY TO STAMP OUT THE COMPETITION(EVEN THE POLICIES ON SQUIRRELING REFER SPECIFICALLY TO THE COS tm AUDITTING AND DO NOT APLLIE TO AUDITTING OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH. AND I DON'T THINK KSW WAS SUPPOSED TO OVERREACH THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CHURCH ANY MORE THAN MCDONALDS HAMBURGER POLICIES(CLEAN IRONED SHIRT ETC) ARE SUPPOSED TO APPLY TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T WORK THERE.)
tHE POLICIES ARE GOOD.
CHURCH PRICES ARE SO HIGH BECAUSE THE PRODUCT IS SUPPOSED TO BE SO REFINED, AND THE AUDITTING OF THE HIGHEST QUALITY. tHE GROUP ONLY RESORTS TO "STAMPING OUT THE COMPETITION" WHEN THE QUALITY OF IT'S PRODUCT DOESN'T DRAW THE PRICES BY ITSELF.
Author: spongie
Posted: Thur 5 Oct 2000 08:21 pm
Ron acquired Saint Hill Manor from the Maharajah of Jaipur.
Spongie, the Mad Cow
Author: John
Posted: Fri 6 Oct 2000 02:54 pm
I personally believe LRH to be one of the greatest frauds and pseudo intellectuals of all time.
It's hard to believe that a lot of his ideas work but they did.
The world is a screwy place.
Mikie, the dead angel
Author: Complexio
Posted: Fri 6 Oct 2000 07:51 pm
A Fraud? A Pseudointellectual? Are we talking about the
same LRH that was one of the first graduates from the
Nuclear Physics program at George Washington University?
Some of the claims the COS makes about LRH's past are so rediculous there funny. It makes me wonder if it's all in
some way supposed to be funny. Really, what if it's all like
a big mockery of our pretense regarding academia and intellectualism.
Author: anon
Posted: Sun 8 Oct 2000 02:35 pm
A thorough list of illegal activities
http://www.scientology-lies.com/investigation.html
Author: maria p
Posted: Mon 9 Oct 2000 05:35 am
I want refund and want to ask if ANYBODY here knows this lawyer who is an expert and takes 33% plus costs. I need his number or adress !!! URGENT !!! THANKS !!!
Author: anonymous
Posted: Mon 9 Oct 2000 06:45 pm
Hi maria p,
I recently got a refund, and did not have to pay a lawyer.
Yes, most lawyers want 1/3, but I would gather that any lawyer who was asking for that much probably is just in it for the cash and may not have real experience with the church.
It can take some time, and unless you are looking at a lot of money, I would guess most regular lawyers might not even think 1/3 would be worthwhile.
I even spoke to some joker in florida who claimed he would tell me how to get a refund if I paid him.
There are plenty of people outside of the church now, who would be happy to tell you about their experiences. The last think you might want now is someone else to take advantage of your difficult situation.
But people do get refunds!
I'll be happy to tell you about my experience.
I am hesitant about leaving my e-mail address on this site regarding this issue at the moment.
Is there any way of contacting you?
Author: maria p
Posted: Tues 10 Oct 2000 07:05 am
yes, there is a way to contact me, because I`m in a difficult situation. My phone number is:
0039 - 0564 28396, you reach me best after 2 o`clock in the afternoon ( European time )
Author: anonymous
Posted: Tues 10 Oct 2000 11:04 am
Hi maria!
Where are you located? I must admit, I am a bit hesitant
about making lengthy long distance calls to europe.
Do you have an e-mail address? Then we can always speak in more specific detail over the phone later.
My experience is also with a refund in the united states,
but IAS administrations is on the freewinds and run from St. Hill england also.
Talk to you soon.
Author: eureka
Posted: Tues 10 Oct 2000 06:37 pm
why don't you phone her just to leave your number, and have her call back. I'm sure there will be operators who charge no more than a couple of nickels per minute.
Eureka
Author: anonymous
Posted: Tues 10 Oct 2000 07:36 pm
hey eureka!
That sounds OK with me. At least we can get started.
I don't know how helpful my experience will be, but it
may give he some ideas or at least confidence that it can be done!
Author: friend
Posted: Wed 11 Oct 2000 05:09 am
hi, maria p is in trouble, moneywise, too, so call her short, if there is any help possible, she will call you back, but only experiences do not help her !!
Author: anonymous
Posted: Wed 11 Oct 2000 07:08 am
I might disagree.
Understanding how others have gotten refunds can be very valuable. She will have to be very persistent nonetheless.
Author: anonymous
Posted: Wed 11 Oct 2000 07:17 am
larry: "eureka"!
mo: "you don't smell so good either".
Sorry for the humour. Maybe our european friends won't get this.
Author: archimedes
Posted: Wed 11 Oct 2000 10:01 pm
take a bath!
Archimedes
Author: anonymous
Posted: Thur 12 Oct 2000 03:19 pm
Hey Maria!
You still there?
leave an e-mail address.
Author: friend
Posted: Sun 15 Oct 2000 01:37 am
maria p has no e mail adress, I posted it for her, because she urgently needs help, best is to call her shortly and give her advices how she can get her money back from FLAG and the ORG in Rome
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