Auditor Trust
From: misiunas@fza.org (Paul Misiunas)
Subject: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/29
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If anyone has a problem in the way that I handled this reality break,
I suggest that you do better instead of whining about how terrible it
is that your "trust" has been broken. I do not handle the "poor me"
routine well. I've badgered Ralph enough and he has taken action. I
hope that you all will do the same.
FZA is not a marketing arm for individual auditors. It is a gateway to
opportunities, and if it takes breaking your so-called "trust" to
bring up awareness levels of those opportunities, then I'll gladly do
it again and again. I am not interested in the acceptability of the
validness of proper web site link etiquette. If my view offends you,
then do better.
Stability requires things to remain the same. Little to no motion.
Suddenly, the populous demands that FZA remain the same? Who complains
the most about the break I created? It's the people that have
something personal to gain.
How is it that I receive correspondence from the general public,
acknowledging the change and it's positive effects? Of how they have
gained some new understanding from this "break". Of how much they have
enjoyed the "Home Page" but look forward to FZA returning to "normal"
status.
These are the kinds of people that I created this break, and FZA, for.
Not for the auditors that continually seek paying pcs. Get your
priorities straight and do your job.
Good auditors naturally attract pcs. Use your trust in that regard and
stop whining about FZA.
Otherwise, if you want a nice stable and safe place to be, try the
closet.
15 Dec 2011 : Here are the replies to the above posting:
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From: r...@hilton.org (Ralph Hilton)
Subject: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/29
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On 29 Apr 1999 17:59:08 -0500, in alt.clearing.technology misiu...@fza.org
(Paul Misiunas) wrote:
>If anyone has a problem in the way that I handled this reality break,
>I suggest that you do better instead of whining about how terrible it
>is that your "trust" has been broken. I do not handle the "poor me"
>routine well. I've badgered Ralph enough and he has taken action. I
>hope that you all will do the same.
I took action not through your badgering but bacause of the hat dump. People
trusted you and you betrayed that trust.
>FZA is not a marketing arm for individual auditors. It is a gateway to
>opportunities, and if it takes breaking your so-called "trust" to
>bring up awareness levels of those opportunities, then I'll gladly do
>it again and again. I am not interested in the acceptability of the
>validness of proper web site link etiquette. If my view offends you,
>then do better.
You did a fast shift. You seemed to want to contribute and then said your
site might only be there sometimes so I removed links.
>Stability requires things to remain the same. Little to no motion.
>Suddenly, the populous demands that FZA remain the same? Who complains
>the most about the break I created? It's the people that have
>something personal to gain.
Or something that aligns with our goals to maintain. Those goals might not
be "personal". I've chosen to spend my time auditing and training others.
When I was working full time as a computer programmer I was making about $45
an hour 10 years ago. I charge about $80/hr for auditing. When one adds up
the time spent its a lot less than what I made then.
You maybe have a job and work 9 - 5 perhaps doing something you like. Maybe
not. There is a great deal of difference between those here who work as
auditors and C/Ses and those who do it as a hobby.
Its all very nice for you to promote your "give it away free" message. But
who is going to change the nappies of those who can't make it alone?
>How is it that I receive correspondence from the general public,
>acknowledging the change and it's positive effects? Of how they have
>gained some new understanding from this "break". Of how much they have
>enjoyed the "Home Page" but look forward to FZA returning to "normal"
>status.
>
>These are the kinds of people that I created this break, and FZA, for.
>Not for the auditors that continually seek paying pcs. Get your
>priorities straight and do your job.
Should we live on the road side? With little stalls that all the freebie
merchants can visit and get auditing super cheepo.
You get what you pay for. Sure you can go to Koos.
>Good auditors naturally attract pcs. Use your trust in that regard and
>stop whining about FZA.
You seem to be doing far more whining than anyone else who has commented.
>Otherwise, if you want a nice stable and safe place to be, try the
>closet.
Sit down with a fucking E-meter and fly your goddamned rudiments.
Even better find an auditor and get him/her to do it.
--
Ralph Hilton
http://Ralph.Hilton.org
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From: Homer Wilson Smith
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/29
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Paul Misiunas (misiu...@fza.org) wrote:
>FZA is not a marketing arm for individual auditors.
Correct, and neither is Clear-L.
This is in part why me and Hacker went our different ways, he
wanted something to help feed pcs into his tithing machine, I wanted a
free scientific forum.
*BIG* difference.
The non survival losers who see Clear-L and FZA as a way to
guarantee their own financial futures should get a real job and a real
life before they try to repair others.
If the only way someone knows how to make money is to audit
others, then they are selling a lie and a vaccuum, and are charlatans
at best in the real game of life.
If someone's wisdom is so damn precious, let them make a million
BEFORE they sell the wisdom itself.
He who has to sell his hard won wisdom of survival, lest he not
survive at all, is a loser selling lies.
He belongs in Opportunity Magazine or the back page ads in the
National Enquirer, not on Clear-L.
And I personally *LIVE* to roast these turkeys to a golden
brown.
Homer
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From: Lyn Keller
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/29
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Homer Wilson Smith wrote:
> Paul Misiunas (misiu...@fza.org) wrote:
>
> >FZA is not a marketing arm for individual auditors.
>
> Correct, and neither is Clear-L.
>
> This is in part why me and Hacker went our different ways, he
> wanted something to help feed pcs into his tithing machine, I wanted a
> free scientific forum.
>
> *BIG* difference.
>
> The non survival losers who see Clear-L and FZA as a way to
> guarantee their own financial futures should get a real job and a real
> life before they try to repair others.
>
> If the only way someone knows how to make money is to audit
> others, then they are selling a lie and a vaccuum, and are charlatans
> at best in the real game of life.
Excuse me, but doesn't helping others in some capacity or other also
warrant making a living at it? All types of doctors whether they be
for the physical or mental and other types of healers whether they
be mental or physical.
Would you tell your Doctor he's a shaman because he makes
money at what he does?
People have studied for years and years and practiced for
years and years at their trade. What makes an auditor any
different except perhaps he does not have the "cert" to hang
on his wall unless he has studied something else which can
give him a cert of some sort.
> If someone's wisdom is so damn precious, let them make a million
> BEFORE they sell the wisdom itself.
Wisdom obviously comes in many different areas. It may not come in
the area of money. Maybe it comes in the area of love or other such
areas.
>
> He who has to sell his hard won wisdom of survival, lest he not
> survive at all, is a loser selling lies.
Well, so much for teachers.
Lyn
>
> He belongs in Opportunity Magazine or the back page ads in the
> National Enquirer, not on Clear-L.
>
> And I personally *LIVE* to roast these turkeys to a golden
> brown.
>
>
> Homer
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From: V...@ctinet.net (RDucharme)
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/30
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At 23:46 29/04/99 -0400, Lyn Keller wrote:
>
>
>Homer Wilson Smith wrote:
>
>> Paul Misiunas (misiu...@fza.org) wrote:
>>
>> >FZA is not a marketing arm for individual auditors.
>>
>> Correct, and neither is Clear-L.
>>
>> This is in part why me and Hacker went our different ways, he
>> wanted something to help feed pcs into his tithing machine, I wanted a
>> free scientific forum.
>>
>> *BIG* difference.
>>
>> The non survival losers who see Clear-L and FZA as a way to
>> guarantee their own financial futures should get a real job and a real
>> life before they try to repair others.
>>
>> If the only way someone knows how to make money is to audit
>> others, then they are selling a lie and a vaccuum, and are charlatans
>> at best in the real game of life.
>
>Excuse me, but doesn't helping others in some capacity or other also
>warrant making a living at it? All types of doctors whether they be
>for the physical or mental and other types of healers whether they
>be mental or physical.
>
>Would you tell your Doctor he's a shaman because he makes
>money at what he does?
>
>People have studied for years and years and practiced for
>years and years at their trade. What makes an auditor any
>different except perhaps he does not have the "cert" to hang
>on his wall unless he has studied something else which can
>give him a cert of some sort.
>
Well stated, Lyn! I couldn't have said it better.
Psychs, priests, accupuncturists, physical, mental, emotional healers of
various sorts get paid. What puts auditors in any different category? The
trick is to put product and service ahead of pay and to maintain one's
integrity at any cost.
Paid processing is only barter with money as a via. And if the processee
eventually does processing on another, then it becomes co-processing on a
very big via, but it's co-processing nevertheless. What's wrong with that?
Robert
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From: Heidrun Beer
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/30
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On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:02:17 -0400 (EDT), Paul Misiunas wrote:
>These are the kinds of people that I created this break, and FZA, for.
>Not for the auditors that continually seek paying pcs. Get your
>priorities straight and do your job.
Paul,
this job was never about money and never will be.
The difference between paying PC's and not paying PC's is whether
you can afford to keep the really qualified auditors "in the chair",
or have them moonlighting in 80% of their time or more, so that they
can eat and pay the bills.
A few weeks ago I had a (paying) PC whose sessions got disturbed
by entities. The materials didn't cover this situation - in fact
a church-auditor, processing the same guy, would never have heard
anything about entities and would have royally messed up the session.
I was able to disentangle this very complicated and delicate situation
because I had done the training which was necessary for it, including
finding sources and travelling around the globe - AND EARNING THE
MONEY FOR ALL THAT with a "secular" income. (In the church he would
have ended up in ethics with this very same problem - MONTHS of enforced
conditions and similar trouble - we had it handled in two minutes.)
Don't you think that EVERY PC in the world would prefer to get
a handling which is skilled enough to guide him safely through
rough waters in processing?
Don't you think that auditors who can do such a thing should be
kept in session, instead of doing other things just in order to
earn money? Shouldn't they also train other auditors instead
of again doing plain money-earning work?
Answer me this: If you have 10.000 PC's, and 100 of them have
cases which are difficult like the one I described: which one
of them would you tell to go home and handle his problem himself,
just because you didn't have the nerve to think about money,
ask for money, and invest the time to make a thorough calculation
to find the right price?
Heidrun Beer
Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
http://www.sgmt.at
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From: Homer Wilson Smith
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/30
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Lyn Keller (lynm...@pacbell.net) wrote:
>Homer Wilson Smith wrote:
>> If the only way someone knows how to make money is to audit
>> others, then they are selling a lie and a vaccuum, and are charlatans
>> at best in the real game of life.
>Excuse me, but doesn't helping others in some capacity or other also
>warrant making a living at it?
The fact that I wish to help others in some capacity or another
does not mean others have a *RIGHT* to that help, or that I have
a *DUTY* to provide that help.
A scientific forum for discussion of medical knowledge is not
the same thing as a hunting ground for those seeking patients.
A forum for discussion of injury is not the same thing as a forum
for ambulance chasers seeking victims to help sue those that injured
them.
A place where people come to discuss case, gains, and tech is not
a forum for practitioners to find new customers.
They can of course try, but the creator of the forum has no
obligation or duty to tune the forum to their ends.
>All types of doctors whether they be
>for the physical or mental and other types of healers whether they
>be mental or physical.
>Would you tell your Doctor he's a shaman because he makes
>money at what he does?
Have you actually read what I posted?
>> If someone's wisdom is so damn precious, let them make a million
>> BEFORE they sell the wisdom itself.
>Wisdom obviously comes in many different areas. It may not come in
>the area of money. Maybe it comes in the area of love or other such
>areas.
Love schmlove.
The only wisdom there is, is how to live and survive and be
sufficient unto one's self. Love is a subset of that. If someone is
an expert at 'love' but can't sow and reap and till the ground, then
they are an expert in love in some other universe that doesn't apply
to this one and their love will not last long, once the conflicts and
necessities of the real world begin to encroach.
The only reason that people come in for auditing is because
they can't make a living, in the broadest possible defintion of the
terms, and they want to be better able to make a living. Are they
going to go to someone whose *ONLY* ability to make a living is to
"help other's make a living"?
Helping others to help others is a vaccuum, eventually one has to
ask 'help others to do WHAT.' Helping others is not that what.
Survive is that what, and that means till and sow and reap and run a
god damn life. *THEN* perhaps, after you have run a god damn life,
and know what its about, and repaired the damage of rubbing elbows
with the real forces of the universe, perhaps you can take on helping
others to run a life and repair themselves too.
Those whose ONLY ability to run a life comes from helping others
run a life, are charlatans selling a vaccuum of wisdom.
>> He who has to sell his hard won wisdom of survival, lest he not
>> survive at all, is a loser selling lies.
>Well, so much for teachers.
Yep, those who can't *DO*, teach. Each rises up the corporate
chain to his level of incompetency.
The best teachers are those that could do first, and then became
teachers later. They are rare, and usually have money in the bank
from having been able to DO first.
Homer
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From: Alan Walter
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/30
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Homer Wilson Smith wrote:
> If someone's wisdom is so damn precious, let them make a million
> BEFORE they sell the wisdom itself.
Geez! I love it when you talk dirty Homer!
Alan
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From: V...@ctinet.net (RDucharme)
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/30
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At 13:45 30/04/99 -0400, Homer Wilson Smith wrote:
>
> The only reason that people come in for auditing is because
>
>they can't make a living, in the broadest possible defintion of the
>terms, and they want to be better able to make a living. Are they
>going to go to someone whose *ONLY* ability to make a living is to
>"help other's make a living"?
Auditors generally can do other things. They specialize in what they enjoy
doing and do well.
Would you ever consider going to a surgeon for a heart operation who is
moonlighting for free after a day at the office as a computer programmer?
> Helping others to help others is a vaccuum, eventually one has to
>ask 'help others to do WHAT.' Helping others is not that what.
>Survive is that what, and that means till and sow and reap and run a
>god damn life. *THEN* perhaps, after you have run a god damn life,
>and know what its about, and repaired the damage of rubbing elbows
>with the real forces of the universe, perhaps you can take on helping
>others to run a life and repair themselves too.
>
> Those whose ONLY ability to run a life comes from helping others
>run a life, are charlatans selling a vaccuum of wisdom.
Don't ALL employees in any capacity do that? Isn't that what employment in
a job or profession is all about - from farmers to assembly line workers to
corporate presidents? Why would you make an exception of auditors?
> Helping others to help others is a vaccuum, eventually one has to
>ask 'help others to do WHAT.' Helping others is not that what.
>Survive is that what, and that means till and sow and reap and run a
>god damn life. *THEN* perhaps, after you have run a god damn life,
>and know what its about, and repaired the damage of rubbing elbows
>with the real forces of the universe, perhaps you can take on helping
>others to run a life and repair themselves too.
>
> Those whose ONLY ability to run a life comes from helping others
>run a life, are charlatans selling a vaccuum of wisdom.
>
>>> He who has to sell his hard won wisdom of survival, lest he not
>>> survive at all, is a loser selling lies.
>
>>Well, so much for teachers.
>
> Yep, those who can't *DO*, teach. Each rises up the corporate
>chain to his level of incompetency.
>
> The best teachers are those that could do first, and then became
>teachers later. They are rare, and usually have money in the bank
>from having been able to DO first.
The word "teacher" is broader than that which applies to the educational
system. Ever hear of consultants to corporations? There are plenty of
those, from computer programmers to motivational speakers and management
specialists. Everybody who writes a book is a teacher of sorts.
The bottom line is this:
Teaching (and any other profession, for that matter) is as valid as there
are people willing to pay for it and feel they are getting a desired product
or service in return.
Robert
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From: Lyn Keller
Subject: Re: Auditor Trust
Date: 1999/04/30
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Homer Wilson Smith wrote:
> Lyn Keller (lynm...@pacbell.net) wrote:
>
> >Homer Wilson Smith wrote:
>
> >> If the only way someone knows how to make money is to audit
> >> others, then they are selling a lie and a vaccuum, and are charlatans
> >> at best in the real game of life.
>
> >Excuse me, but doesn't helping others in some capacity or other also
> >warrant making a living at it?
>
> The fact that I wish to help others in some capacity or another
> does not mean others have a *RIGHT* to that help, or that I have
> a *DUTY* to provide that help.
>
> A scientific forum for discussion of medical knowledge is not
> the same thing as a hunting ground for those seeking patients.
>
> A forum for discussion of injury is not the same thing as a forum
> for ambulance chasers seeking victims to help sue those that injured
> them.
>
> A place where people come to discuss case, gains, and tech is not
> a forum for practitioners to find new customers.
>
> They can of course try, but the creator of the forum has no
> obligation or duty to tune the forum to their ends.
>
> >All types of doctors whether they be
> >for the physical or mental and other types of healers whether they
> >be mental or physical.
>
> >Would you tell your Doctor he's a shaman because he makes
> >money at what he does?
>
> Have you actually read what I posted?
Well......I could have sworn....I did.
I didn't ack you on the intention of your list. I do understand that
this is a discussion list and not a promotional list. Instead I jumped
right into the other area of a consideration that I saw regarding your
value system on who should sell what or teach what.
> >> If someone's wisdom is so damn precious, let them make a million
> >> BEFORE they sell the wisdom itself.
>
> >Wisdom obviously comes in many different areas. It may not come in
> >the area of money. Maybe it comes in the area of love or other such
> >areas.
>
> Love schmlove.
Well, then there's that book. Do What You Love and the Money Will
Come (I forgot the author).
>
> The only wisdom there is, is how to live and survive and be
> sufficient unto one's self. Love is a subset of that. If someone is
> an expert at 'love' but can't sow and reap and till the ground, then
> they are an expert in love in some other universe that doesn't apply
> to this one and their love will not last long, once the conflicts and
> necessities of the real world begin to encroach.
Love is an attitude. One can be wise about an attitude.
I used to think that the only way I could sell something is if I was
the example of what it was I sold. So, therefore, if I did not feel
good enough in an area, I simply never sold it.
However, I've met several people who can sell something and
they are not examples of it. Take vitamins for example. I've seen
some pretty unhealthy, hefty looking people sell vitamins or some
such product. I've even seen them do quite well at it.
Take a fat person in show business. Now in most cases unless
there is a call for fat people in a scene, you don't get too many
roles of "people in love" who are fat, playing romantic scenes
up on the "silver screen". However, there are people who have
succeeded in getting some very good roles who are rather
overweight.
>
>
> The only reason that people come in for auditing is because
>
> they can't make a living, in the broadest possible defintion of the
> terms, and they want to be better able to make a living. Are they
> going to go to someone whose *ONLY* ability to make a living is to
> "help other's make a living"?
I see, well, I personally would go to a car mechanic myself if I needed
help trying to figure out this mass sitting on my head.
I would think one would go to someone who felt was competent in
handling the area they are looking at.
I'm certainly no person to look at and say - boy she sure makes a lot
of money but yet I've turned around and helped others make money
or simply get jobs or situations they wanted.
As a secretary and helping others in their business - I watched them
make money as I helped to improve their business. Did I get paid
more? No. I wasn't a consultant - I was a secretary.
This has to do with educating oneself as to the ropes of how one can
get more money. This has to do with one's own havingness and
identities.
But this does not mean that they "cannot" help someone else
successfully.
I've even met car mechanics who are not making it all that well
and they are good car mechanics. This is a business sense type
of thing to me.
>
> Helping others to help others is a vaccuum, eventually one has to
> ask 'help others to do WHAT.' Helping others is not that what.
> Survive is that what, and that means till and sow and reap and run a
> god damn life. *THEN* perhaps, after you have run a god damn life,
> and know what its about, and repaired the damage of rubbing elbows
> with the real forces of the universe, perhaps you can take on helping
> others to run a life and repair themselves too.
There are flows here. I no longer feel one has to be constantly doing
one in order to get the other. I think that one can do both.
Help yourself and at the same time learn from who you are helping and
help them as well. It then becomes an upward spiral instead of a fixed
side of a game. It becomes more teammwork than just self-determinism.
>
> Those whose ONLY ability to run a life comes from helping others
> run a life, are charlatans selling a vaccuum of wisdom.
Yea, I guess Mother Teresa was a charlatan then, although many people
who have their faith in God don't think so.
> >> He who has to sell his hard won wisdom of survival, lest he not
> >> survive at all, is a loser selling lies.
One who "has" to do just about anything is sitting in a lie. Even if
one
"has" to survive as MEST.
> >Well, so much for teachers.
>
> Yep, those who can't *DO*, teach. Each rises up the corporate
> chain to his level of incompetency.
>
> The best teachers are those that could do first, and then became
> teachers later. They are rare, and usually have money in the bank
> from having been able to DO first.
Not always. I've met some very good teachers who were not that
well off. They had the idea of teaching down very well. They actually
could convey a thought across in which it kept the interest and they
were willing to answer any questions.
To me that's even more rare than some "well seasoned" pro who
becomes a teacher but is impatient with people because he's been
there and done that.
It takes talent to be a teacher and be good at it. Of course its always
better if you can find that combination of someone who has actually
done what they teach on a mastery level and can actually convey it
across so that people can actually learn it.
Point being that many people have the tendency to find an "expert"
and believe that they should be exactly what it is they are an expert
about.
However, what my image of success about another person and what
their image of success about themselves might be two different ideas
altogether.
Someone who is helping as a consultant in a billion dollar company
may not be a billionaire. Does that mean they shouldn't hire the guy?
I've worked for several people who promote for other companies
who are good promoters but not as rich as some of the companies
they are promoting. It does not make their work invalid.
Lyn
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