Re: Prequel to "My Story of leaving the Sea Org". Part One
From: Anonymous
Subject: Re: Prequel to "My Story of leaving the Sea Org". Part One
Date: 1998/08/15
Message-ID: <199808150137.DAA05015@replay.com>
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: basement.replay.com [194.109.9.44]
References: <6r1l3m$5g2@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer
administrator at .
X-To: mail2news@replay.com
X-XS4ALL-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 03:37:14 CEST
X-Mail2News-Info-Url: http://www.replay.com/mail2news/
Organization: mail2news@replay.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
X-Mail2News-Error-To: abuse@replay.com
wrote in alt.religion.scientology:
>ralph@atnet.at (Ralph Hilton) writes: > On 14 Aug 1998 00:48:04 GMT, wrote:
>>
>> >ralph@atnet.at (Ralph Hilton) writes:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:21:16 GMT, remove-sb@londonoffice.com (SB) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 02:13:19 GMT, ralph@atnet.at (Ralph Hilton) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:15:35 GMT, remove-sb@londonoffice.com (SB) wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Its interesting how things changed. I was at Flag from 1972 - 1982 and never
>> >> >>called a messenger "Sir".
>> >> >
>> >> >Wow, then things have changed. I'm really surprised to hear that. I
>> >> >guess the FO's (various CMO FO's and FO 38) that talk about his were
>> >> >before your time. Though I am pretty sure that FO 38 was around.
>> >
>> >Yes, FO 38 was definitely around then.
>> >Where were you Ralph? As you know, I was on Flag from 1973-1976 and
>> >I heard commodore's messengers being called "sir" several times. They
>> >were literally the personification of LRH and were supposed to be
>> >treated that way.
>>
>> I was on the Apollo as you well know. Why ask questions you already know the
>> answer to? Maybe those who were stuck in a state of propitiation called them
>> "Sir".
>
>No, people who were anywhere near the tech division and receiving LRH
>orders from messengers called them "sir".
Did Ralph Hilton spend his time locked in his cabin or what. Even if
*he* didn't call the messengers "Sir", he must have heard others doing
so.
This obvious mistake from him, together with his strange reaction in
answer to you, shed high suspicions on his claim to be an expert of
the SO.
>> >> Yes. The definition of Right arm rank changed. It used to only refer to officers
>> >> who were capable of succeeding the Captain of the ship.
>> >>
>> >> >>That was reserved for Hubbard, whom I respected, and very few others. But I
>> >> >>always called the kids in the CMO by their names.
>> >> >
>> >> >You know the CMO Flag Orders specifically say that Messengers are to
>> >> >be addressed exactly as if you were speaking to Ron - right?
>> >
>> >Yes, that's correct and that's why they were always addressed as "sir".
>>
>> Utter Bullshit.
>>
>> >Ralph was obviously either not around messengers often or has forgotten.
>>
>> Your little games are stupid. I was around messengers quite a bit and never
>> called one "Sir".
>
>My experience was very different, but then I spent alot of time in the
>tech division where we regularly had contact with messengers relaying
>LRH orders.
>
>> You are an obnoxious little shit.
>
>Thank you, Ralph. That's quite a compliment coming from you.
Freezone tech can help you with that (not!)
>>You put in little words like "obviously" from
>> your studies of Milton Erikson and NLP and their techniques of covert hypnosis.
>> I'm well aware of your use of semantic distortions in your posts.
>> They are far more manipulative than Scientology ever was.
>
>You really need a refresher course on the English language if you think
>the word "obviously" originated with Milton Erickson or NLP.
>So now you accuse me of trying to put you in a trance. ROFL!
>You really need to do something about dealing with your paranoia, Ralph.
>Doesn't your freezone tech handle that?
Seems not. Ralph Hilton is once again demonstrating that freezone tech
is just BS.
>> >> Sounds as if these are being interpreted differently now. Or maybe they wrote
>> >> new ones.
>> >>
>> >> >>If any of them had suggested it I would have laughed in their faces.
>> >> >People get seriously busted now for such things. Etiquette is a big
>> >> >deal, and IMO, misapplied. Flag Order 38 was very clear on who you
>> >> >were supposed to call sir. It is grossly misapplied to now mean
>> >> >"anybody senior to you".
>> >
>> >People would have been busted then too for laughing in a messenger's
>> >face. FO38 was around then and often it was applied to
>> >anybody senior to you. People on the RPF had to call their
>> >senior's on the RPF, such as the RPF Bosun, "sir".
>>
>> The RPF was covered by FO3434 which only applied to the RPF as you should well
>> know.
>>
>> FO38 was not applied then to anyone just because they were "senior" to one. It
>> was applied to RA rank officers and the CO of an org.
>>
>> >> Seems a lot of these new kids in the CMO have a big button on self importance.
>> >
>> >The ones in the 70s on the Apollo did too. Believe me, I know.
>> >Did you ever know Jill Goodman? A perfect example of the above.
>> >What's interesting is that she was one of the ones to blow fairly
>> >early on.
>>
>> I knew Jill. She always used to smile and was friendly. Once or twice she would
>> give me a bit of shit from Hubbard but if I'd called her "Sir" she would have
>> giggled.
>
>Jill herself, in an interview with Russell Miller that's in his book,
>Barefaced Messiah, admitted she and other messengers became "poisonous
>little wenches". Her words, not mine. There is also a story in the
>same book, told by someone who was there, where Jill, on LRH orders,
>gleefully spit in Diana Hubbard's face. Oh yes, she was such a delightful
>child, thanks to her Scientology upbringing.
Maybe Ralph didn't realize that she was a poisonous little wench
because he is a bigger one.
>> What the hell has her decision to leave the S.O. got to do with anything?
>
>Because it shows that she was not as much of a true believer as some
>of the more passive ones, who stayed. My statements about Jill are
>not a criticism of her personally, but of how the cult affected her.
>After all, she either was born into Scientology or got in at a very
>early age (I'm not sure which), so this wasn't her fault.
>The fact she managed to leave says very good things about her.
>
>> Who specifically is it interesting to? Jill isn't here to defend herself against
>> your libel so fuck off.
>
>Like I said, if you don't believe me, read Jill's own words about her
>behavior on the Apollo which is in complete agreement with my
>observations of her. Was she "libelling" herself?
Ralph Hilton obviously doesn't have a clue about what libeling is,
nor, obviously, does he have a clue about what he is talking about.
You, OTOH, Monica, have to be commended for ignoring Ralph Hilton
insults and verbal abuses and providing for an informative and
cool-headed answer.
